In this thread, we will take a look at the Follower Beliefs to see how they stand up next to each other and if any of them need tweaking.
Overall, I will use a simple ranking system to look at them.
A - Great, no change
C - Building is a bit too weak, a bit too strong, or just not quite interesting enough. Needs some possible adjustment.
F - Building is too weak or too strong, and needs some love.
I will bucket them into two categories: The static bonuses, and the buildings.
First of all, a general statement. Its important to always remember that Followers and Population are not the same thing. Even with good religious pressure, followers tend to lag behind the total population, and don't often match until late in the game. This is a factor in how we rate the beliefs.
Static Bonuses
1) Mastery: Specialists gain +2 to main yield. (A). For a tradition player, this is one of the best beliefs, though it may not look it at first. The thing is, the other static bonuses take time to grow, and the buildings require faith to get them built. This one can start out with an immediate bonus for a tradition player, one that grows very strong with time.
Even a wide player can get good mileage out of it, as late games tend to go heavy specialist....giving you a wide range of strong bonuses.
2) +1 Food per 2 followers (max +15): (F). Compared to the others, food is a weaker choice. It starts out very nice but it falls down in value quickly compared to stronger yields. The cap is honestly not even necessary, you could remove it to make this a little stronger but it wouldn't do much.
3) +1 Hammers per 2 followers (max +15): (A). Hammers are always good, early in the game, late in the game, this can give a player a very nice boost to total production.
4) +1 Culture per 2 followers (max + 10): (A). Culture being one of the strongest yields in the game, this one is naturally very good. Also helps get those borders moving for your satellite cities.
5) +1 Gold per 2 followers (max + 20): (F). Gold is simply a weaker yield compared to the others. The greater max means absolutely nothing, if you have 40 followers in a city....your overdoing it
6) +1 Science per 2 followers (max +15): (C). Science is a mid level yield in strength, and gets a nice max to help in the capital. There are generally better choices, but if your playing the strong science game (and already choose Synagogues), then this can be a decent companion.
7) +1 Faith per 2 followers (max + 10): (C). At the time your get your follower belief, Faith is a strong yield to get. The only weakness is you tend to want more faith to spread your belief, but that gives your opponent more faith to then counter you. However, it can help power other beliefs that use faith. Overall a strong C, stronger than the science one.
8) Cooperation: +5 city yields when a person is born (Era Scale): (F). Simply outclassed by most everything else here. Starts out solidly, but as growth tapers off, the more consistent yields just take it down.
Building Bonuses
1) Cathedrals: +3 Faith/+3 Gold. 1 work of art slot. 25% more pressure/20% conversion resistance. Reduces Poverty. +1 Gold for Farms.
(C)
Cathedrals don't look sexy at first, but there is a lot here. The +1 Gold for Farms turns into +2 during GAs....which tend to become common by the mid game. Combined with good faith and gold give it a decent yield. Gold is generally not as strong as other yields, but there are some good things here. Further, it reduces poverty, the second most common cause of unhappiness in the game.
2) Churches: +4 Faith. 1 work of music slot. 50% pressure increase/20% conversion resistance. Missionaries can convert 3 times.
(A)
The definitive building for a religion spread strategy. Also often overlooked is the fact it increases your religious pressure more than any other building, making you more resistant to conversion, and just that much stronger in converting your opponents. Combines well with other beliefs that involve spreading.
3) Synagogue: +2 Faith/+3 Hammers. 1 work of literature slot (um what's that?). Reduces Crime. 25% pressure increase/20% conversion resistance. +15% science during WLTK.
(A)
+3 hammers straight up make this a nice building to drop in a satellite city to get it moving. However the +15% science is what makes this building so great. Percent bonuses are precious, and its not hard to get near permanent WLTK by mid to late game...gives you a big science boost. Lastly, it reduces crime, the most common unhappiness source. Combined this is a great building.
4) Pagodas: +2 Faith/+2 Culture. 1 work of art slot. Reduces Boredom. 25% pressure increase/20% conversion resistance. +2 to all city yields for each religion present.
(A)
At initial glance, you actually get +4 Faith/+4 Culture/+2 hammers/+2 Science/+2 Food/+2 Gold. Wow!
This is the strongest early game religious building, gives you a big jump start, and is great for wide strategies. Also, if you happen to be next to a Spain or an India...you will almost certainly have some of their religion mixed in with yours for a while, so add 2 more to those numbers.
That said, this building does lose out long term to things like the Synagogue that ultimately scale more...but you can't beat it early game when it really counts.
5) Mandirs: +3 Faith/+2 Food. +10% food. Reduces Poverty. Spies cannot assassinate great people or disrupt production. 25% pressure/20% conversion resistance.
(F)
I will say....the assassination resistance is a lot better than people give it credit for. I have seen assassinations take out over 1,000 GP points! You basically are going to get 1 more GP by selecting this building. The food looks nice, but the pagoda gives as much initially. The 10% food helps it scale, but it doesn't have the core that a lot of other bonuses provide.
6) Stupas: +3 Faith/+2 GA Points. Gain +2 GA points/+4 Tourism with Architecture. Reduces Illiteracy. +25% pressure increase/20% conversion resistance.
(F)
Compared to other buildings, just not that great. The tourism comes too late to really make the bonus worth it. If the tourism came initially, then you could at least look at it for cultural victory. Otherwise, there are simply better options.
7) Orders: +2 Faith. Land Units gave +10 XP/Morale promotion. Increases City HP and Strength. Reduces Crime. +25% pressure increase/20% conversion resistance.
(C)
A nice grab bag of things. Decent for a warring player, gives a little extra protection to your cities, and reduces crime...the strongest unhappiness modifier. If your planning to do strong warring, this is a solid building.
8) Mosques: Cannot remember their yields (tool tips don't have them), I believe its +20% culture during GA, and something else....I'll have to find it later.
Overall, I will use a simple ranking system to look at them.
A - Great, no change
C - Building is a bit too weak, a bit too strong, or just not quite interesting enough. Needs some possible adjustment.
F - Building is too weak or too strong, and needs some love.
I will bucket them into two categories: The static bonuses, and the buildings.
First of all, a general statement. Its important to always remember that Followers and Population are not the same thing. Even with good religious pressure, followers tend to lag behind the total population, and don't often match until late in the game. This is a factor in how we rate the beliefs.
Static Bonuses
1) Mastery: Specialists gain +2 to main yield. (A). For a tradition player, this is one of the best beliefs, though it may not look it at first. The thing is, the other static bonuses take time to grow, and the buildings require faith to get them built. This one can start out with an immediate bonus for a tradition player, one that grows very strong with time.
Even a wide player can get good mileage out of it, as late games tend to go heavy specialist....giving you a wide range of strong bonuses.
2) +1 Food per 2 followers (max +15): (F). Compared to the others, food is a weaker choice. It starts out very nice but it falls down in value quickly compared to stronger yields. The cap is honestly not even necessary, you could remove it to make this a little stronger but it wouldn't do much.
3) +1 Hammers per 2 followers (max +15): (A). Hammers are always good, early in the game, late in the game, this can give a player a very nice boost to total production.
4) +1 Culture per 2 followers (max + 10): (A). Culture being one of the strongest yields in the game, this one is naturally very good. Also helps get those borders moving for your satellite cities.
5) +1 Gold per 2 followers (max + 20): (F). Gold is simply a weaker yield compared to the others. The greater max means absolutely nothing, if you have 40 followers in a city....your overdoing it
6) +1 Science per 2 followers (max +15): (C). Science is a mid level yield in strength, and gets a nice max to help in the capital. There are generally better choices, but if your playing the strong science game (and already choose Synagogues), then this can be a decent companion.
7) +1 Faith per 2 followers (max + 10): (C). At the time your get your follower belief, Faith is a strong yield to get. The only weakness is you tend to want more faith to spread your belief, but that gives your opponent more faith to then counter you. However, it can help power other beliefs that use faith. Overall a strong C, stronger than the science one.
8) Cooperation: +5 city yields when a person is born (Era Scale): (F). Simply outclassed by most everything else here. Starts out solidly, but as growth tapers off, the more consistent yields just take it down.
Building Bonuses
1) Cathedrals: +3 Faith/+3 Gold. 1 work of art slot. 25% more pressure/20% conversion resistance. Reduces Poverty. +1 Gold for Farms.
(C)
Cathedrals don't look sexy at first, but there is a lot here. The +1 Gold for Farms turns into +2 during GAs....which tend to become common by the mid game. Combined with good faith and gold give it a decent yield. Gold is generally not as strong as other yields, but there are some good things here. Further, it reduces poverty, the second most common cause of unhappiness in the game.
2) Churches: +4 Faith. 1 work of music slot. 50% pressure increase/20% conversion resistance. Missionaries can convert 3 times.
(A)
The definitive building for a religion spread strategy. Also often overlooked is the fact it increases your religious pressure more than any other building, making you more resistant to conversion, and just that much stronger in converting your opponents. Combines well with other beliefs that involve spreading.
3) Synagogue: +2 Faith/+3 Hammers. 1 work of literature slot (um what's that?). Reduces Crime. 25% pressure increase/20% conversion resistance. +15% science during WLTK.
(A)
+3 hammers straight up make this a nice building to drop in a satellite city to get it moving. However the +15% science is what makes this building so great. Percent bonuses are precious, and its not hard to get near permanent WLTK by mid to late game...gives you a big science boost. Lastly, it reduces crime, the most common unhappiness source. Combined this is a great building.
4) Pagodas: +2 Faith/+2 Culture. 1 work of art slot. Reduces Boredom. 25% pressure increase/20% conversion resistance. +2 to all city yields for each religion present.
(A)
At initial glance, you actually get +4 Faith/+4 Culture/+2 hammers/+2 Science/+2 Food/+2 Gold. Wow!
This is the strongest early game religious building, gives you a big jump start, and is great for wide strategies. Also, if you happen to be next to a Spain or an India...you will almost certainly have some of their religion mixed in with yours for a while, so add 2 more to those numbers.
That said, this building does lose out long term to things like the Synagogue that ultimately scale more...but you can't beat it early game when it really counts.
5) Mandirs: +3 Faith/+2 Food. +10% food. Reduces Poverty. Spies cannot assassinate great people or disrupt production. 25% pressure/20% conversion resistance.
(F)
I will say....the assassination resistance is a lot better than people give it credit for. I have seen assassinations take out over 1,000 GP points! You basically are going to get 1 more GP by selecting this building. The food looks nice, but the pagoda gives as much initially. The 10% food helps it scale, but it doesn't have the core that a lot of other bonuses provide.
6) Stupas: +3 Faith/+2 GA Points. Gain +2 GA points/+4 Tourism with Architecture. Reduces Illiteracy. +25% pressure increase/20% conversion resistance.
(F)
Compared to other buildings, just not that great. The tourism comes too late to really make the bonus worth it. If the tourism came initially, then you could at least look at it for cultural victory. Otherwise, there are simply better options.
7) Orders: +2 Faith. Land Units gave +10 XP/Morale promotion. Increases City HP and Strength. Reduces Crime. +25% pressure increase/20% conversion resistance.
(C)
A nice grab bag of things. Decent for a warring player, gives a little extra protection to your cities, and reduces crime...the strongest unhappiness modifier. If your planning to do strong warring, this is a solid building.
8) Mosques: Cannot remember their yields (tool tips don't have them), I believe its +20% culture during GA, and something else....I'll have to find it later.
