Tuning Religion Founder Beliefs Round 2

[randomnub]

That's a good question - my opinion is that founding a religion should be enough to put you a few techs or policies ahead, and/or grab you a handful of extra great people. More than that and it becomes a balance issue.

G

Do you have any data on how many successful (winner) AIs didn't found? And how many of those peacefully adopted another religion, without conquering an Holy CIty?

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Perhaps we could crowd-think to an average amount of benefits we get from an average game with a given founder. Or if someone could create a spreadsheet with more exact numbers.

@Gazebo , do you perhaps have any AI numbers/correlation between individual Founders/Enhancers and game winners?

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Took Council of Elders as Maya and easily spread my Religion with Pacifism. Managed to spread to around ~35 Cities. Seemed rather potent once I started getting 100+ / per City spread. Would argue that is what is intended for investing in the effort to Found and Spread.

Taking the sum of arithmetic series should get us (35/2) * (6+210) = 35*108 = 280+3500 = 3750.

 

[Gazebo]

Do you have any data on how many successful (winner) AIs didn't found? And how many of those peacefully adopted another religion, without conquering an Holy CIty?

Perhaps we could crowd-think to an average amount of benefits we get from an average game with a given founder. Or if someone could create a spreadsheet with more exact numbers.

@Gazebo , do you perhaps have any AI numbers/correlation between individual Founders/Enhancers and game winners?

Not really, though in general the strongest civs are the ones who conquer a holy city (and spread it), not founders, as its a double-whammy of conquering + 'founding.'

G

 

[randomnub]

WoT has been a weird beast since the per-city update. Delaying Classical until you get a religion nets you 10yields per type, and even the next era yields are low when you really hurt yourself by not rushing Medieval (due to how per era scaling works for everything), so limited spreading before that. I have yet to try it with the per era scaling, but before that it wasn't looking promising at all.

Not really, though in general the strongest civs are the ones who conquer a holy city (and spread it), not founders, as its a double-whammy of conquering + 'founding.'
G

That has been my experience as well, especially if I can have a saying in what beliefs I can pick and conquer the Holy City before enhancing, with a base-cost prophet. Bonus points if the founder decided to use some more early faith spread to me, playing the nice neighbour. I typically focus on religion only if I really want to keep my pantheon, and the nearby one is junk.

It boils down to how many resources are necessary to join the Founders Club and how little yields the founder beliefs provide before late eras and a lot of spreading.

 

[ElliotS]

Gazebo, does that intended scope of benefits include just the "Founder" part or the "Enhancer" part as well?

In any case, WoT falls way beyond that scope, I think it'd be better to remove scaling and instead increase it to 45 per type of yield per city.

No no no no no! Please no!

WoT is terrible when it doesn't scale with era. Nerf the yields a bit if it's OP, but don't remove that please. I feel like we got a very clear idea that WoT is terrible when it's not era scaling.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Ok. I'm fine with that, it's one of my favourite beliefs anyway, so I'm ok with it remaining very strong.