Turkey and the EU: A great opportunity we might miss?

[CaptainF]

This video got me thinking about this.

I for one happen to think he's correct. The vast majority of Muslims are rational, and would see that the success of a Muslim country like Turkey in partnering with Europe (and the Western World in general) can happen.

 

[Truronian]

Until Turkey sorts out the Cyprus issue and the freedom of speech issue it cannot happen.

 

[Gabryel Karolin]

Feel free to give them a Yankeeland membership invite if you think this will save the world, I think its far more trouble than worth and is against the purpose of the EU.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

No they will create trouble. I have been their and I can say that their society isn't compatible with ours.

 

[~Corsair#01~]

Turkey is a fascist dictatorship which has committed no less than 3 major atrocities against Europeans in the last century, one of which continues today, and not only have they not apologised, but they remain actively aggressive towards Armenia, Cyprus and the Kurds.

Turkey is free to join the EU as soon as it reforms it's political system, removes it's soldiers and colonists from Cyprus, allows the Kurds autonomy/independence and stops preaching that the Armenians "deserved it".

Their junta has comprehensively stated that it will never comply with a single one of these conditions and so the discussion as far as I'm concerned, and certainly as far as the EU government and popular majority are concerned, is over.

 

[scy12]

The opportunity is there for Turkey to catch or miss if it wishes so.
It is up to Turkey to be up to the European standard required and not up to Europe to lower it's standard to the Turkish level.

If they remove their military from European ground , have a democratic goverment which accepts the rights of all minorities while not having an aggressive stance on their neighbors and finally accept and distance them selfs with the atrocities and genocides they committed like the Germans did with the Nazis then they will go into the Eu because they will be up to the European standards..

However , the military junta that has always controlled Turkey won't let it .

 

[Echse]

I think it´s inevitable that they join in the future. There´s just too much money to make for us and them.
Of course it´s still a long way and they have to sort out a lot of things but I see them in the EU in the next 5 to 15 years

 

[scy12]

I think it´s inevitable that they join in the future. There´s just too much money to make for us and them.
Of course it´s still a long way and they have to sort out a lot of things but I see them in the EU in the next 5 to 15 years

The problem is that if they sort the issues that is required from them those who are in power and had been in power for the most of the later 20th century will lose their positions. And call me pessimistic (because a European Turkey which will enter with the acceptance of Cyprus will do what it has to do also in Cyprus) but they won't let their authority go so easily.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Until Turkey sorts out the Cyprus issue and the freedom of speech issue it cannot happen.

Yes, very true. They must also adknowledge that they commited a genocide against Armenians and they must cease attacks on Kurds in Iraq. All in all there's just too many issues which mean they should not be allowed to join.

 

[Verbose]

The only reason in the forseeable future to wrest Turkey away from that "deep state" so far running it would seem to be full speed towards the EU. The EU at least has something to offer which enough Turks might want to take them up on. That's the point of admitting Turkey eventually.

That done, it's the potential EU door towards the Central Asian republics, and the possibility of them also joining a EU sphere of western democracies.

That is, as opposed to Russia or China putting their mark on Central Asia.

A Turkey NOT aligned with the EU is no bloody good for the EU. Every opportunity should be taken to keep Turkey moving towards it – without skimping on the demands on Turkish compliance with the principles of the EU charter. Doing that would defeat the purpose anyway.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

Most of Turkey isn't in Europe and culturally/historically it never has been. The EU shouldn't turn into the UN.

 

[Verbose]

Most of Turkey isn't in Europe and culturally/historically it never has been. The EU shouldn't turn into the UN.

The selling point of principles the EU expounds is that they are universal, not European.

 

[Truronian]

Most of Turkey isn't in Europe and culturally/historically it never has been. The EU shouldn't turn into the UN.

Look up "Byzantium"

 

[scy12]

Look up "Byzantium"

What does the Eastern roman empire have to do with Turkey ? The only one who had any relation to them where some Greeks culturally but their state is not a successor of the eastern roman empire.

 

[Cato the Elder]

What does the Eastern roman empire have to do with Turkey ? The only one who had any relation to them where some Greeks culturally but their state is not a successor of the eastern roman empire.

Then what say you about the Ottoman Empire, the predecessor of modern Turkey, which controlled vast parts of southeastern Europe and thus both influenced the region and was, in turn influenced by it? You can make tonnes of arguments about Turkey, but them not having any connection to Europe is just bollocks.

Also, the Turks don't live under a military junta, they've been a secular parliamentary republic since 1923 and hold elections regularly. Where'd you guys get that from?

 

[scy12]

Then what say you about the Ottoman Empire, the predecessor of modern Turkey, which controlled vast parts of southeastern Europe and thus both influenced the region and was, in turn influenced by it? You can make tonnes of arguments about Turkey, but them not having any connection to Europe is just bollocks.

Also, the Turks don't live under a military junta, they've been a secular parliamentary republic since 1923 and hold elections regularly. Where'd you guys get that from?

I am not saying that The Ottoman empire didn't influence the region . However The Ottoman empire was not Byzantium , a successor of Byzantium or culturally Byzantirum. The people that where once a part of the Easter Roman empire , considred themselfs mostly Greeks and Romans alike and they rebelled. Or they didn't rebel in some parts of the empire but they still had their national identity remain.Some even had power in the Ottoman empire. Those that created the Greek state there national feelings where not anymore aligned with the Eastern Roman empire. That is the story. Now at places in Turkey where there where people that descented from the Eastern Roman empire , they were killed from the start of the first world war until the climax of 1922 and then again it reached a climax at 1955. Today only a few thousands remains.

Whatever connections the Ottoman empire had with the Eastern Roman world died when for the Turkish nationality and state to be created they required everyone else there to die. Hitler does acknowledge their efforts and how motivated he was from them in his infamous letter.

As for the military junta , there where some elections but the army controls everything. it's a state within the state. Or better there are two governments in Turkey .

 

[The End Is Nigh]

Then what say you about the Ottoman Empire, the predecessor of modern Turkey, which controlled vast parts of southeastern Europe and thus both influenced the region and was, in turn influenced by it? You can make tonnes of arguments about Turkey, but them not having any connection to Europe is just bollocks.

Genghis Khan made it all the way to Poland. That does not make the Mongols a European tribe. As a matter of fact, modern Turks are Ottomans which is a Mongol tribe. There is no cultural or other connection with Europe.

Also, the Turks don't live under a military junta, they've been a secular parliamentary republic since 1923 and hold elections regularly. Where'd you guys get that from?

True. But you wouldn't describe Turkey a democracy either. The military is known to exert to much influence in the country's politics, something you would not find in any modern stable democracy.

 

[Tee Kay]

Actually, I don't really think it matters so much that Turkey has a politically-influential military. The issue of Cyprus and Kurdistan and, to a lesser extent, genocide denial is much more important.

Still, excluding Turkey from the European community outright wouldn't do any good either.

 

[Truronian]

What does the Eastern roman empire have to do with Turkey ? The only one who had any relation to them where some Greeks culturally but their state is not a successor of the eastern roman empire.

It sounded to me like ALDA was refering to the Anatolian Peninsula never having been historically European... and while modern Turkey is not wholly Eurpoean Byzantium certainly was (at least in its origins).

 

[scy12]

It sounded to me like ALDA was refering to the Anatolian Peninsula never having been historically European... and while modern Turkey is not wholly Eurpoean Byzantium certainly was (at least in its origins).

That is correct. But i think we can all agree that Europe does not deny certain cultures for not being "European" but for not accepting the European principles.

That is all which we are demanding. Now historically Turkey has no living footprint of the Eastern Roman Empire because they killed them. The Ottoman empire allowed them to exist had influenced them in a small margin but the Ottoman empire was not the Eastern Roman empire , a successor of it or represented it. And finally all modern states even if they where created by people who called them selfs Romans or where descended by them , they have not directly succeeded that state even if they have several cultural ties.

Turkey has no right to claim any of the tradition of the Eastern Roman empire.

The Ottoman empire's rulers came from Assia andhad not relation but as they allowed people who belonged to the Eastern Roman empire to exist and even to create communities they had some right to claim that their empire also had places with Eastern Roman tradition. (Well it was an empire and it had some multicultural elements).