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Turkey in europe

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Italian Celtic, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. Quildavyr

    Quildavyr Man of sick jokes!

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    :lol: :lol:
    it will make you fat!

    Nope.It was Islambol.Changed for secularism.Istanbul has free religion;)
    Atatürk and Senate changed it to Istanbul.
     
  2. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    So they just changed a couple letters to something that would sound cool, or is there more to it?
     
  3. Tabasco Sauce

    Tabasco Sauce King

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    Because it isn't a European country. That is what it boils down too. Plus, I don't think any European wants a 15% non-European voting bloc.
     
  4. aronnax

    aronnax Let your spirit be free

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    Italian Celtic, Istanbul will never be Constantinople again because....

    1) There only about 6000 Greeks in the entire city of 10 million

    2) I would shoot you first then let you even change it on your own personal Map
     
  5. Enkidu Warrior

    Enkidu Warrior Ultramagnetic

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    :crazyeye: So Turkey can't join the EU because it's 'not European', and your explanation why that's a problem is 'because it's not European'. Are you familiar with circular logic? I ask again, why is that important, why should it matter?

    And I don't think anyone in favour of Turkish membership sees it as 'a non-European voting bloc'.
     
  6. Tabasco Sauce

    Tabasco Sauce King

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    Is Turkey European? Yes or no.
     
  7. Truronian

    Truronian Quite unfamiliar Retired Moderator

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    I'd say yes.
     
  8. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    I've always heard that it came from a phrase meaning "to the city"...
     
  9. Enkidu Warrior

    Enkidu Warrior Ultramagnetic

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    Yes. Care to answer my question now?
     
  10. Italian Celtic

    Italian Celtic real european

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    1) You haven't understood yet that i and quidavyr were kidding. It's clearly Istanbul will never change its name and so i said "when Istanbul change its name turkey will be european" to say "Turkey will never be european".
    My engish sucks but i hope you've understood :D

    2) You would shoot me for my ideas :eek:
    Now do you understand why i don't want such a terrorists in my ****ries?
    :p

    NO.

    Turkey is an asiatic country with european elements in the west, but the majority of population is asiatic (and Copenaghen criteria map say it clearly)

    In poor words 3% of Turkey is european and the 97% is asiatic, and if i remember well math 97% is bigger than 3%

    That's all :p
     
  11. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    Since Europe has never been a distinctly defined, stable concept anyway, making it include Turkey shouldn't be a problem. All it takes is the political will to do so.

    And I think making up hard and fast geographical-cum-cultural rules about what is Europe and who is European is a really BAD idea. The indistinctness of what and who is European is a major asset. Start drawing lines in the sand like this, and the EU project begins limiting itself for no reason or gain.

    Me, provided Turkey wants in and complies fully with the agenda, I say the are very welcome. All these Central Asian republics look too Russia, China and Turkey. With Turkey in the EU, that's our door to influencing this place to move in the same direction as the EU itself. Admitting a large historically Muslim country would also be a huge asset in dealing with North African and the Middle East, which is of vital interest for the EU.

    In general, the EU project needs to move ahead and it needs to be ambitious, if possible visionary. Closing the borders of a new "Festung Europa" is hardly the way to do it. That said, it doesn't have to mean the indefinate extension of the EU itself, but an extension of some form of matured EU-model.

    Either Europeans in general come around and decide that the principles this union is based on are universally applicable, worth protecting and run with the premise, or we can call quits on the whole thing sooner rather than later.

    Of course, first we have to agree on what we are about. All this talk about geography, history and culture I take as an indication that the EU for the time being has a large deficit as to what "core values" it stands for. Defining that would seem more pressing than drawing borders on maps.
     
  12. Enkidu Warrior

    Enkidu Warrior Ultramagnetic

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    Absolutely. The EU has shown recently that it isn't ready to truly define itself in terms of universally applicable principles, as it clearly has to do if it's going to mean anything in the future. If it decides never to tackle this question, and just substitutes such principles with arbitrary concepts of geography or religion, the EU, as an idea and a force for the future, if not as an institution functioning on the surface, will be cold dead.
     
  13. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    QFT:goodjob:
     
  14. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    No, because European Christians are a lot more reasonable than their American counterparts. We're not puritans, most of us anyway, because we've kicked them out few centuries ago :lol:

    Anyway, European history is full of Christians not living according to the Bible, I'll go as far as to say that this is also part of our Christian heritage - the ability to take religion pragmatically.
     
  15. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    Cultural differences can be ignored only if they're not too deep :p
     
  16. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    It is ambitious enough as it is. Making it too ambitious is a sure way to failure. When idealism takes over pragmatism, it's a recipe for disaster.

    Western universalism is one of the most dangerous mistakes. Our values are not unversally applicable. We're Europeans, the others are not. You can't change what your are.
     
  17. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    Then it's not universal, and useless to us. On the scrap heap it goes, so we can come up with something which actually is asap.
     
  18. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    Explain that strange logic, "if it's not universal, it's useless". It makes no sense to me.

    EU is an European organization. It's values, its agenda must be suitable for Europe. Some of our values may be univerally applicable, but the very idea of having an organization just for European countries is not.
     
  19. Quildavyr

    Quildavyr Man of sick jokes!

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    If a country claims himself as a secular democracy,the biggest city of this country cant have a name meaning "Home of Islam".That is it.Even Istanbul is not a turkish word:)

    You know my cousin is coming.Get a shelter!:)
     
  20. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    Universality is the key here. If Europe, the West if you like, fails to present an agenda at least universal enough, someone else will.

    Islam is making a spirited attempt. Let's say you're right and European universality is just a local commodity, but Islam turns out to be the real deal, what do you think will happen?

    So yes, if the present configuration of European-style universalism can't do the job, the hell with it.
     

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