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Turkey in europe

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Italian Celtic, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    That's a completely wrong approach. Our interest is not to adopt an idea which we think is universal and then spread it as a gospel, we tried to do that and we failed.

    The most successful civilizations are not those who try to encompass the whole world, but those which stop at some point and strenghten their culture to a point at which they are prepared to withstand pressure from other civilizations.

    That's the case of China, for example. And although Chinese history is full of disasters, their cultural strenght remains undisputed.

    I believe that's what Europe must do after the "universalist disaster" we've experienced in the last centuries.

    Islam will fail like all universalist attempts in history.

    European-style exclusivism is exactly what we need. We have to appreciate our uniqueness, instead of watering it down in another vain attempt to find universal values. There is no such thing.
     
  2. AceChilla

    AceChilla Goedheiligman

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    If the EU is supposed to be an organisation of "Universal principles" why would you even bother calling it EU then. Why not the World Union or for that matter "The Evil Empire" ;)

    The problem lies in the fact that the EU at the moment tries to do two things at the same time which cannot co-exist. They want to work towards a politicial union, where the people feel European based on a similair European culture.

    At the same time they do not want to define that culture (if something like that would even be possible) and want to extent the union to countries with cultures more and more alien to the Western European culture it stated out with.

    The EU has to chose, either you deepen the Union via political integration or you broaden it by taking Turkey in. You cant do those two things at the same time. I think taking Turkey in would kill the EU political integration.
     
  3. aronnax

    aronnax Let your spirit be free

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    You also didnt understand I was being funny...

    Humour must be dead in Italy...along with its aging population.
     
  4. Truronian

    Truronian Quite unfamiliar Retired Moderator

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    I thought we'd agreed to leave the silly geography argument outside the thread? :(

    In this case they're not. :)
     
  5. Italian Celtic

    Italian Celtic real european

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    Son, i couldn't understand because you didn't put emoticons :mischief:

    I hope you're kidding...
     
  6. Italian Celtic

    Italian Celtic real european

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    Ehi! That jep* has got the point! :goodjob:

    Apart for jokes, mates defining european principles is an hard work.
    We have to keep in the big communities of muslim and jews in Europe, but at same time keep out countries like Turkey or Israel.

    I've already tried to give a definiition of an european country but i've noticed everyone have a own theory

    That's the why we are arguing about Turkey in Europe and why we will debate forver

    Without an hard definition of european we will never end this discussion

    We need it!!!

    *japanese boy in informal way

    I was speaking about culture... :rolleyes:

    This is an your opinion ;)
     
  7. Truronian

    Truronian Quite unfamiliar Retired Moderator

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    In that case how did you come to the conclusion that Turkey is 3% European in culture? ;)
     
  8. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Deity

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    To me, Geography isn't the way to define Europe Because you get cases such as Cyprus, Armenia, Cape Verde, Georgia, etc. So we have to define Europe Culturally. I think that's the hard part. European Culture is mostly, if not entirely shaped by Christianity. It's hard to say turkey can't be in cause it ain't Christian, without sounding racist, but really that's the truth.

    Christianity Shaped European Culture, Turkey isn't Christian = Turkey wasn't influenced by the Vatican or Rome like all other european nations. It's not Turkey not being Christian, it's Turkey not being European Culturally, and Europes culture involves Christanity.

    I think this is the problem people are having with turkey.
     
  9. Quildavyr

    Quildavyr Man of sick jokes!

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    ^^Should we convert to christianity until we joined EU and then repent?:p
     
  10. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    I'd say Humanism (or Enlightment if you want) has shaped Europe more than Christianity. When I think of Europe today, I don't think of the pope, the thirty-years war or the Anglican Church, I think of European values that allowed us to live in peace after 1945! That's my idea. Centering on Christianity leaves out a whole lot of history, or was the Roman Empire not important? Muslim Al-Andalus saved a lot for Europe, not to speak of Judaism, the Vikings were not Christians, the Magyars, Bulgars and so long had to be christianized, and wasn't Lithuania pagan for a long time too. Not getting to historical, what about Enlightment and Humanism, Of course they have a strong connection to Christianty (those scientists often were devout or deists...), but they can be thought also without.

    m

    PS: To the last one 36: The Orthodox World and The British Isles have also not been influenced by the pope, you can add Protestantism as well, but due to its harsh fight it has somehow been influenced.
     
  11. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    No, you need to learn to speak greek (in the wast) and armenian (in the east) too.
     
  12. Quildavyr

    Quildavyr Man of sick jokes!

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    I was kidding.But I think you are kidding too.However it is good idea,but it will kill our nationalism.:p
     
  13. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    Pah, byzantine nationalism would be just as prideful! :p
     
  14. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Deity

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    I know, it was a quick post, i didn't want to go into details :p
     
  15. Quildavyr

    Quildavyr Man of sick jokes!

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    I think we are going to split.My favourite newspaper classified the people like me as Byzantines;)
     
  16. REDY

    REDY Duty Caller

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    I think that historical problem is that againist Turks we were fighting. First European unity was thanks their invasion. There is also one another problem. Turkish viewpoint of their history. Same should be told for example about Serbia or Croatia.
    Todays is Turkey modern developing country, true ally. But its also big country. As was problematic join Poland and will be possible problem of join Ukraine, the Turkish enter will be hardest challenge. If was Turkish country only Istanbul and coastal area, there will be not so long discussions about their enter and their belonging to Europe.
     
  17. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Most people forget that France was allied with the Ottoman Empire for very long periods of time. (Hell, they even planned to build the Suez canal together)
     
  18. George2816

    George2816 Emperor

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    Does israel want to join the EU?? Would other nations in the EU even want israel in there??
     
  19. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Deity

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    A better question is, do they want to deal with it's neighbors?
     
  20. Thorgalaeg

    Thorgalaeg Deity

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    True, but we can go further beyond that. For instance, along 16-17th centuries France allied with the Turks because Spain and Austria were the worst enemies the Ottomans had in Europe. So i would not speak too much about European unity...
     

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