Turkey in europe

[Bill3000]

But it isn't european country! If Turkey joins, then I want Ecuador in EU ASAP!

You know damn well that if Turkey was miraculously placed with a Byzantine Empire with the same borders that it would be in the EU ASAP.

 

[philippe]

you have no clue of beautiful islam. take your materialistic immoral atheism to your porn sites. I know you have a large quantity XXX porno sites bookmarked or added to your favorite list, you cant fool me. the muslim population in west is rapidly growing because they choose the beautiful islam over a decaying decandent hedonistic life style.

 

[Sofista]

You know damn well that if Turkey was miraculously placed with a Byzantine Empire with the same borders that it would be in the EU ASAP.

Same borders of modern Turkey, or same borders as the Byzantine empire of yore?

 

[Pannonius]

You know damn well that if Turkey was miraculously placed with a Byzantine Empire with the same borders that it would be in the EU ASAP.

Of course it would be. It would be great to have a Roman Empire in the EU.

 

[Bill3000]

Same borders of modern Turkey, or same borders as the Byzantine empire of yore?

modern turkey borders. The Byzantine Empire in its prime was an Anatolian empire anyway.

Of course it would be. It would be great to have a Roman Empire in the EU.

So why don't you invite Russia or Turkey, then, who both claimed the mantle?

 

[scy12]

I would say that the border's of the Byzantine empire ended where those of the Seljuk turks started . Inevitably shrinking until being conquered.

 

[Bill3000]

Yup, precisely. As I said, the Byzantine Empire was an anatolian empire.

Greece was just a backwater in comparison.

 

[Pannonius]

modern turkey borders. The Byzantine Empire in its prime was an Anatolian empire anyway.


So why don't you invite Russia or Turkey, then, who both claimed the mantle?

Here we go again...
Turkey just isn't european coutry. It wouldn't be european even if it's situated by the Rhine.

 

[Quildavyr]

Here we go again...
Turkey just isn't european coutry. It wouldn't be european even if it's situated by the Rhine.

Because Turks are nonchrist and mostly muslim,right?

You are a funny kid.

 

[Bill3000]

Here we go again...
Turkey just isn't european coutry. It wouldn't be european even if it's situated by the Rhine.

European influence was fundamentally part of both the Ottoman Empire and Turkey, dude. Do I really need to bring up the Patriarch?

 

[scy12]

Yup, precisely. As I said, the Byzantine Empire was an anatolian empire.

Greece was just a backwater in comparison.

Anatolian or not the soul of that empire was still Greek. Trebzibont trapezoynta , kapadokia Constantinupole and so on where flourishing in life. When finally the empire moved to mainland Greece and was finally conquered. However large populations remained in the Ottoman empire that lead to it's corruption . Until 1922 when the areas called Ionia where still densely populated with Greeks , Armenians and those areas would go into which country the people decided by referendum. ...

The borders of Turkey are irrelevant when just recently they had been fixed by ethnic cleansing and so on.

Like i said the borders of Byzantium and as a result Europe always ended where those of The Seljugs started . As a result we have a entity trying to break into Europe and conquer it and then we have Europe. In the start of the century those borders where even nearer , yet the Powers of the day always made the distinction between the Ottoman empire and Europe.

The conflict has remained. It is a clash of cultures but it is also a clash of Geopolitic interests between a conqueror , a Nation always expanding and opportunity.

 

[Pannonius]

European influence was fundamentally part of both the Ottoman Empire and Turkey, dude. Do I really need to bring up the Patriarch?

And that's why they killed, looted and pillaged in Europe for centuries. And don't bring the Patriarch in this story. His Hollynes allready suffered too much at the hands of these people.
Another reason I don't want Turkey in the EU is because Turkey is currently holding EU territory under military occupation. They invade Cyprus, and we let them join EU! How much more masochistic can Europe be?

 

[warpus]

And that's why they killed, looted and pillaged in Europe for centuries.

Just like.. all the other European countries were doing at the time.

 

[Bill3000]

What warpus said. As I said earlier, you're just bitter that they conquered Hungary and the rest of the balkans. That's your fundamental objection. It's not even really "islam" that's the objection.

 

[Pannonius]

Just like.. all the other European countries were doing at the time.

But if the Ottomans won, there would be no Europe now. Not to mention democracy. Nothing created in Europe in the last 500 years or so wouldn't exist. Imagine a world without opera.

 

[Bill3000]

But if the Ottomans won, there would be no Europe now. Not to mention democracy. Nothing created in Europe in the last 500 years or so wouldn't exist. Imagine a world without opera.

Yeah. So. Considering the huge influence the ottomans had on europe... (and it was far more than merely raping and pillaging) why arn't they considered European? You'd consider Albania european, as with Bosnia.

 

[TheLastOne36]

To me, Geography isn't the way to define Europe Because you get cases such as Cyprus, Armenia, Cape Verde, Georgia, etc. So we have to define Europe Culturally. I think that's the hard part. European Culture is mostly, if not entirely shaped by Christianity. It's hard to say turkey can't be in cause it ain't Christian, without sounding racist, but really that's the truth.

Christianity Shaped European Culture, Turkey isn't Christian = Turkey wasn't influenced by the Vatican or Rome like all other european nations. It's not Turkey not being Christian, it's Turkey not being European Culturally, and Europes culture involves Christanity.

I think this is the problem people are having with turkey.

Cross that out. It's people in europe who can't stand a religion outside of Christianity who don't want turkey in.

I think that's why this topic is on page 24.

 

[Pannonius]

I could live without Albania or Bosnia. You obviously didn't see local Vehhabists. Talibans on steroids.

 

[Bill3000]

I could live without Albania or Bosnia. You obviously didn't see local Vehhabists. Talibans on steroids.

That's a different justification than "they are not european" though.

There are plenty practical concerns as to why Turkey or many of the countries in the Balkans shouldn't join the EU; at the very least, for a long time. The fact that they are "not European" is not one of them, when they are just as European, if not moreso because of its history, legacy, and culture which had hugely influenced the rest of the balkans, than albania or bosnia.

 

[warpus]

But if the Ottomans won, there would be no Europe now. Not to mention democracy. Nothing created in Europe in the last 500 years or so wouldn't exist. Imagine a world without opera.

If the Magyars managed to conquer all of Europe, there would be no 'Europe' either... or Napoleon.. or Hitler.. or...