1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Turkey in the EU

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Pannonius, Aug 19, 2007.

?

Should Turkey be admitted into the EU?

  1. Yes, Turkey should be admitted into EU wright away

    17 vote(s)
    13.9%
  2. Yes, it should be admitted after some reforms

    32 vote(s)
    26.2%
  3. Yes, but only after serious reforms and some probation time

    36 vote(s)
    29.5%
  4. No, Turkey should not be a member state of the EU

    37 vote(s)
    30.3%
  1. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Messages:
    27,947
    Location:
    Brno -> Czech rep. >>European Union
    No, that's how it works - how you determine who's American? It's someone who feels American and who is seen as American by others who feel American ;)

    It's not an exact science - nations are a social construct.

    Of course, we can set up some objective criteria (like I sometimes do), but in reality, it is determined on emotional level.
     
  2. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    50,152
    Location:
    Stamford Bridge
    So you'd be against Albania joining?

    And how similar is the Portugese mindset to the Latvian one?

    The Ottoman Empire was usually alligned with some European countries and at war with others. That's the nature of being a large empire - you have friends and enemies.

    Besides, that was hundreds of years ago, what does it have to do with what's happening today?

    A lot of European countries united to oppose French expansion during the Napoleonic wars - does that mean that France shouldn't be a part of the EU?

    Your point is dubious. You don't have a clear definition of what you want "European" to mean and thus are able to include whatever countries you want, and exclude the ones you don't.

    I ask you again, how similar is Ireland to Malta?
     
  3. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    23,090
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Sunshine and Lettuce Capital of the World
    Actually, there are several definitions, and in some cases it won't be 100% clear if someone is or isn't American.
     
  4. aronnax

    aronnax Let your spirit be free

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    6,344
    Location:
    Air Temple Island
    Christianity......

    I have this weird feeling the EU is a rich-boys Christian Only club.
     
  5. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Messages:
    27,947
    Location:
    Brno -> Czech rep. >>European Union
    Yes. The difference is that Albania is relatively small and still more European than Turkey, so it doesn't pose such challenge.

    I am tired of this question. The answer is the same - they're closer to each other than to non-European groups.

    Later, yes, after Turkey stopped being such a threat, European countries used it against each other. This doesn't change the fact they've never seen it is a part of Europe. Turkey was excluded from the European system. From European perspective, it was large, alien oriental Empire which can be sometimes useful, nothing more.

    Everything. Culture, traditions, mentality, historic experience, they take centuries and centuries to form. That's why Poland, Czech Rep. or Hungary remain Europen after few decades of Communism - Communism didn't affect their roots. Conversely, few decades of forcible Westernization can't remove Turkey's islamic, oriental roots.

    No. Europeans waged wars against each other most of the time. These wars were often very brutal. But after they were resolved, the defeated countries usually rejoined the community of Europen nations and quickly regained their previous position. France was utterly defeated in the Napoleonic era, Germany lost two major wars, but that didn't affect the way others see them - as fully European countries.

    No. It's just that some people think everything can be precisely defined, which is simply not true. Things like "culture", "traditions" etc. are impossibly hard to define.

    You already know the answer.
     
  6. Gabryel Karolin

    Gabryel Karolin Gammelgädda

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,583
    Location:
    Sweden, Europe
    Yea, because the eastern european countries we took in were extremely wealthy...

    The European Union is a European club, though. And Turkey is not in Europe, not culturally, not geographically, not in any way.
     
  7. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Messages:
    27,947
    Location:
    Brno -> Czech rep. >>European Union
    Even if that was true, what would be wrong with it?

    Christianity is without doubt one of the strongest components of the European identity. It has formed Europe like nothing else.
     
  8. Rossiya

    Rossiya Fridge Magnet Porn

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,981
    I have a weird feeling that the quotation above is BS.
     
  9. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    50,152
    Location:
    Stamford Bridge
    "European" is not such an easily definable term, obviously ;)

    Is Ukraine closer to Portugal or Kazakhstan? Hmmm...

    There are no clear dividing lines, as you'd like us to think.

    Most of Europe often viewed Russia in a similar manner. Nobody would argue that Russia isn't European, though.

    Europe is more diverse than you'd like us to believe. Some Europeans don't even use the Latin alphabet.. or an Indo-European language! Some hail from central asia!

    Admit it, the only reason you don't want Turkey to be in the EU is because it is a Muslim country with a large population.
     
  10. Norseone

    Norseone Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,786
    Location:
    Crying for Texas independance
    Actually I know many people who would argue Russia isn't European ;)
     
  11. Kozmos

    Kozmos Jew Detective

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    13,124
    Location:
    Sitka District
    Is that a bad reason by itself? I'm pretty sure European countries wouldnt be accepted in the Arab or Islamic League either if they applies.
     
  12. Urederra

    Urederra Mostly harmless

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    5,310
    Location:
    Sea of tranquility
    Nope, it is about the countries in question being in the European continent, or most of their land.
     
  13. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    23,090
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Sunshine and Lettuce Capital of the World
    Or being Cyprus.
     
  14. Cromat

    Cromat Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    138
    To the people against Turkey in the EU: what countries, if any, do you think are worthwhile candidates to joining the EU?
     
  15. Princeps

    Princeps More bombs than God

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    5,265
    The current EU could solve a lot by dissappearing.
     
  16. Rossiya

    Rossiya Fridge Magnet Porn

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,981
    Norway, Iceland, Switzerland, Monaco, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Macedonia, Albania, Croatia, Bosnia, Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Montenegro, Serbia, Moldova, Vatican City, San Marino, Georgia and Armenia.

    Tell me if I have missed off any others.
     
  17. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    23,090
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Sunshine and Lettuce Capital of the World
    If Russia were to join, then more than 50% of EU territory would be in Asia.

    (I think, don't have the exact numbers.)
     
  18. Rossiya

    Rossiya Fridge Magnet Porn

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,981
    The important parts of Russia are in Europe.
     
  19. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    23,090
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Sunshine and Lettuce Capital of the World
    Maybe, but most of the actual land is in Asia.
     
  20. Rossiya

    Rossiya Fridge Magnet Porn

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,981
    Most people live in the European parts, most cities are in the European parts, and the Asian land is crap.
     

Share This Page