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Turkey in the EU

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Pannonius, Aug 19, 2007.

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Should Turkey be admitted into the EU?

  1. Yes, Turkey should be admitted into EU wright away

    17 vote(s)
    13.9%
  2. Yes, it should be admitted after some reforms

    32 vote(s)
    26.2%
  3. Yes, but only after serious reforms and some probation time

    36 vote(s)
    29.5%
  4. No, Turkey should not be a member state of the EU

    37 vote(s)
    30.3%
  1. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

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    Be that as it may, it will pretty much end the argument that having a majority of territory in Europe is what qualifies. Although as I said Cyprus already did that.
     
  2. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    That's another debate for another time; but I don't really think anyone would argue that Albania or Bosnia should be excluded from the union for that reason.
     
  3. Rossiya

    Rossiya Fridge Magnet Porn

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    Even though Cyprus is in Asia, it is very European and shouldn't even be a separate entity, were it not for the awful Turks. Were it not for the awful Turks invading it, I presume that Cyrpus would have joined Greece.
     
  4. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

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  5. scy12

    scy12 Deity

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    Cyprus has remained a Greek island for over 2000 + years. As i believe the candle of European civilization to be the Greek one , i wouldn't classify Cyprus in Asia sooner than i would classify France or Spain in Africa. Cyprus is a Mediterranean Nation like Italy is.


    And of course today Culturally , Economically we have western or European culture.


    Yes and No. I consider the Mediterranean as part of Europe.

    Since it isn't the sole criterion. That is precisely why Turkey will never enter the Eu unless .... It deserves to it. By complying to European principles and leaving European ground that is illegally (based on Un ,EU and international law) under it's possession for over 30 years.
     
  6. Rossiya

    Rossiya Fridge Magnet Porn

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    I was saying that Cyprus is geographically in Asia, which of course is totally contrary to its culture and history.
     
  7. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

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    Well, where a nation is located physically will not be the only thing that determines its culture, look at the US.

    The point is, anyone who looks at a map can see that physically, geographically, Cyprus is in Asia. But culturally it is something else.
     
  8. scy12

    scy12 Deity

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    True but personally i don't consider the islands that surrounds the Mediterranean sea as a part of Asia.

    IMHO for the abolition of confusion it is better to use the term Mediterranean country.
     
  9. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

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    Well, what you consider to be Europe or Asia, and what the general consensus among geographers is, might be different.
     
  10. Pannonius

    Pannonius Reconquistador

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    Cyprus belongs to the greek culture, and Greece is the cradle of Europe. I think my point is clear. And parts of today's Turkey that could be considered european also have greek heritage. I would like to see Constantinople and Ionia in EU.
     
  11. scy12

    scy12 Deity

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    Ιndeed. I never said otherwise you will notice.
     
  12. LordRahl

    LordRahl The Objectivist

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    My main objection about Turkey joining EU, would be whether or not they can guarantee separation of their church and state. Their close ties with Iran would also need to be examined.
     
  13. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    Ukraine is another split country - read Huntington ;)

    There are no sharp dividing lines. But lines exist, they're just blurred in some cases. And sometimes they're not.

    I would - Russia isn't Europen, it's Russian. It is still close to European culture though, and like Turkey, it too has a Westernized segment of the society present.

    Europe is diverse, I don't dispute that, but it also forms one of two main branches of the Western civilization. I won't repeat what I've said million times before about shared culture and stuff like that. Europe is a coherent entity, like it or not, and Turkey is not part of it.

    You and other people are trying to dispute the existence of a European identity and thus create grounds for assertion that Turkey does belong to the EU. You can't succeed in that, because European identity is well-estabilished concept. People are often unaware of that, because they're not confronted with the world outside Europe very often. Still, most of them feel Turkey is not European.

    Islam and large population are issues, yes, but it's not everything. I mentioned culture and their affiliation to a different civilization. Their political system is also strange (not fully democratic) from the European point of view. Their strong nationalism and cocksureness is another issue. Their unresolved past (Armenian genocide) and present (Kurds) problems also don't add to their reputation. Turkey would be a first EU member which would ignore the existence of another member (Cyprus) and support a phony state which is de iure in a state of war with it.

    Together, it makes Turkish memberhip impossible. EU has its aspirations and Turkish entry would destroy any chance for achieving them.
     
  14. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    Norway, Switzerland and Iceland could join immediately, if they wanted to.
    Croatia will hopefully join soon.
    Serbia and Macedonia should have a chance if they work hard to meet the criteria.
    Albania and Bosnia - in distant future.
    Ukraine - in very distant future.
    Belarus - nearly impossible even in very distant future
    Russia - 99,99% impossible even in very distant future

    That's it.
     
  15. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    That's one thing I fully agree with. Europe is primarily a cultural, not geographic entity.

    Take a historic atlas, look at the maps from different periods and mark countries that were considered European at the time. It will give you a hint which countries should be considered European today.
     
  16. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I would not be against Russia joining. Their territory is vast, but they very clearly are a european nation in everything. Their science, art and history are european.
    Turkey, on the other hand, would just be the sick man of EUrope. :backstab:
     
  17. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    It's slowly becoming more and more coherent, thanks to the EU, and one day Turkey will be a part of it too.

    Is it? Define this "European identity" then. If it's so well-established this should be easy enough to do, in a paragraph or less. Make sure it includes all ethnic groups you consider to be European, including the Finns, Basques, Albanians, and Bosniaks.
     
  18. LordRahl

    LordRahl The Objectivist

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  19. scy12

    scy12 Deity

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    European Identity : A) Respect other European Nations at least on the level to recognize them as entities , do not actively keep troops on European ground or pursue offensive activities against them.
     
  20. LuckyAC

    LuckyAC Immortal

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    Turkey has the same GDP and life expectancy as the last two members (Romania and Bulgaria), so it isn't below some threshold. Of course, it's actually a large country, so you are worried about the impact. Actually, I agree, Turkey doesn't appear a great candidate for monetary union. It experiences asymmetrical shocks due to having such a different economy and labor mobility is not that good, plus there is not enough fiscal federalism in the EU for automatic corrections. Of course, the EU wasn't thought of as a very good candidate by many, and it's sort of a catch-22 - you need to be a monetary union already to develop those characteristics.
     

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