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Turn 1-50

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by DaveShack, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    I would advise finishing Polytheism regardless to avoid degradation and further beaker loss. And while eventually snagging Judaism seems good, it would only be practical after getting Hunting and Animal Husbandry.
     
  2. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Of course.
     
  3. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    AFAIK there is no way to lose beakers once you put them in any tech.
     
  4. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    About finishing Poly, We can finish it fastest at t50 I think. And our settler for Mantra is produced in the same t50. It takes him 1 whole turn to travel before he can settle, making it settle in t51, then Poly can be found in t52. I think it makes sense to wait 2 more turns and risk losing the religion even if we are not relying entirely on religion to pop our borders in Mantra. If we get lucky Hindu to be indeed found in Mantra, then we get very very fast access to the Gold. in like 3-4 turns after Mantra is found instead of 13-14. These 10 turns of working a gold can easily equal to 70 beakers/gold (assuming that if we dont work the Gold tile for 0-3-9, we will work in those 10 turns some forest tile for 2-1-0).

    I think it is worth the risk of delaying Poly with 2 turns.
     
  5. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    Beaker degradation (and hammer degradation) begin after 10 turns of halted partial completion. I read that somewhere or other. Though, as I can't seem to find the source, it may be disregarded.
     
  6. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Hammer degradation of hammers put in units indeed starts after 10 turns. Hammers put in buildings starts after 50 turns I think. But I never heard of beakers degradation. Anyway, even if this is how things are, we will be finishing both Hunting and Poly just before the 10 turns mark.

    Back on my doubts about two turns first in Poly or first in Hunting - thanks to our excellent, magnificent, (cant find the strong words I want to praise him) demohacker Yossa and his great spreadsheet, I have noticed that both RB and WPC have already knowledge of Hunting, so it is it - we must put the two first turns of "unallocated" research in Hunting to save ourselves 2 turns of researching Poly in vain if it turns out someone else found Hindu before we do and we decide we dont want to go the Masonry-Mono route.

    Back to the sandbox, screens and text coming in short.
     
  7. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    In the meantime, can anyone comment on the SH? I think it is a no-brainer for us now. At the cost of 2 forest and 5 warriors, we get a World Wonder, which:
    - gives us 2 GP points/turn for free (most specifically pure bread Great Prophet ones - we might find good use of this GP if we get a well-spread early religion)
    - gives us free border pop-ups for ALL our cities until we discover Astronomy (thats half a CRE trait)
    - in pure hammers account, SH pays itself back with the fifth settled city of ours (4 monuments x 30 hammers = 120 hammers SH) plus it does not requires worker turns to actually chop those monuments, or plan perfectly to get the monument chopped in the turn of city planting, and saves us missed opportunities of late second ring tiles access for new cities.
    - denies the SH for anyone else with all the great benefits I just described
     
  8. Aivoturso

    Aivoturso King

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    I wouldn't mind SH if you believe our expansion plans can take it. How soon can we start and what how big is the risk that someone beats us to it?
     
  9. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    As for risks, we will have to ask our invaluable Master of the Whisperers Yossa :) I can make only speculations. If RB were Huayna and LP was their mastermind, then I wouldnt have started thinking about it at all. But as it is.. I dont know.. maybe it is worth the risk. Good question/reminder though. We can even set the risk level even lower. I will not finish the chops, but instead pre-chop it to 1t and then finish the chops in rapid succession in the last 2 turns. :eek2: Sigh, back to the sandbox/spreadsheet for new screensaves/turn details.
     
  10. RegentMan

    RegentMan Deity

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    Isn't it a little too late to be thinking about Stonehenge? I'd rather get another city or two out earlier than some bonus gold.
     
  11. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    I can see that making Mantra a holy city is clearly best but is Terasvim so bad that we would risk missing Hinduism altogether? Mantra is a great name, and Stonehenge sounds good also (I feel that thoses warriors are already starting to loose their effectivness anyway) but delaying religon sounds like a bad idea.
     
  12. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    It is not so bad. It just has the bitter taste of mediocrity. I'd prefer expansion and Hinduism to Stonehenge, but if that is not possible... well, I'd still prefer an additional city at this point in time.
     
  13. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Yes! Yes - my thinking exactly.

    I dont know, I can hope it is not too late of course :) The hammers we will be putting in SH except the chops are not that big - like 50-60 hammers. Not even a worker. Not to mention that if we build worker, Teras is not growing, so no size 2 or 3 for him, and no 4hammers mines of course. Which even if we lose is like 8 gpt/bpt deal. Thats half our income at 100% gold slider. Commerce is rare that early.

    Working those two plains mines and in the worst case scenario getting fail gold is almost equal to working the Gold tile, which we all dream of, but this is way earlier. Why would we miss it? For 1 worker? What difference he will do? Or if we account also the chops to count the SH as 1 settler (SH is 120 hammers, 1 settler is 100) - what good 1 city without good tiles to work is? We dont have the workers still to be improving fourth city vicinities. City planted without improvements ready soon is rarely a good thing. And chopping monuments is bad. Only slowly building them is worse :) What about the missed turns where we cant chop forests in to granaries from the second ring? Yes, it is somewhat risky. And with great reward. Just as everything in the life. Play it safe and you are middle-tier at best. I am sure we all will like winning this particular game, not only finishing in the middle :)

    Think of the SH as not connected with Hindu. What will Teras build have no impact on the Hindu at all. And not forget SH is a backup plan for missing Hindu at all or founding it in Teras. Then we will have to chop monument in Mantra. And in each of our next 8-10-12 cities we will build.

    Micromanagement plan coming up next.
     
  14. Aivoturso

    Aivoturso King

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    BTW, just reminding that there is less than 4 hours left of this turn according to Civstats. At what time will we be moving Thunderfall and sending missives to WPC and RB?
     
  15. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    t 46 Indira: 4t to settler ; Terasvin: 20t to SH ; Lord Parkin - finish cott ; Nabaxo - builds cott 2t to finish ; Husch - finish road on the hill near Teras ; research: 3t to Hunting

    Spoiler :


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    t 47 Indira: 3t to sett / 3t to expand borders ; Terasvin: 19t to SH ; Lord Parkin - help Nabaxo finish cott ; Nabaxo - finish cott ; Husch - moves and starts chop forest N of Teras -2t to finish ; research: 2t to Hunting

    Spoiler :


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    t 48 Indira: 2t to sett / 2t to expand borders ; Terasvin: 18t to SH ; Lord Parkin - builds road as team ; Nabaxo - builds road as team ; Husch - chop forest N of Teras - 1t to finish ; research: switch to Poly - 4t to Poly

    Spoiler :


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    t 49 Indira: 1t to sett / 1t to expand borders ; Terasvin: 17t to SH ; Lord Parkin - builds road to Mantra site as team ; Nabaxo - builds road to Mantra site as team ; Husch - moves and starts chop forest W of Teras -2t to finish ; research: 3t to Poly

    Spoiler :


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    t 50 Indira: settler ready / borders expanded ; Terasvin: 16t to SH ; Lord Parkin - builds mine for Teras as team ; Nabaxo - builds mine for Teras as team ; Husch - chopping forest W of Teras ; 1t to finish ; research: 2t to Poly

    Spoiler :


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    t 51 Indira: building worker in 4t ; Terasvin: pop3;work new mine; 9t to SH ; Mantra: Founded;granary in 30; growing in 8 ; Lord Parkin - finish mine for Teras as team ; Nabaxo - finish mine for Teras as team ; Husch - moves and start chop tundra wood SW of Teras ; research: 1t to Poly

    Spoiler :


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    Hindu found turn 52
    Spoiler :


    t 52 Indira: building worker in 3t ; Terasvin: 8t to SH ; Mantra: growing in 7 ; Lord Parkin - finish road to Mantra as team ; Nabaxo - finish road to Mantra as team ; Husch - chop tundra wood SW of Teras 3t to finish ; research: Poly ready;start on Hunting

    Spoiler :


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    t 53 Indira: building worker in 2t ; Terasvin: 7t to SH ; Mantra: growing in 6 ; Lord Parkin - moves and start Deer Camp as team ; Nabaxo - moves and start Deer Camp as team ; Husch - chop tundra wood SW of Teras 2t to finish ; research: Hunting ready;Start AH

    Spoiler :


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    t 54 Indira: building worker in 1t ; Terasvin: 4t to SH ; Mantra: growing in 3 on improved deers ; Lord Parkin - finish Deer Camp as team ; Nabaxo - finish Deer Camp as team ; Husch - finish chop tundra forest

    Spoiler :


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    t 55 Indira: worker ready ; Terasvin: 1t to SH growing in 2 ; Husch - finish chop forest W of Teras ; other workers - LP+ Nabaxo and the new one awaiting orders.

    Spoiler :
     
  16. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Leaving you guys some time to take a look and say your thoughts of my plan. This turn we will have to move Thunderfall and make contact with WPC. It is a bit in inconvenient time for me if Ares (whoever he is) dont hit EOT soon, so I can just make our moves and roll the timer as I would love to check if we are the first team WPC encounter via the espionage points before they can adjust them. Will wait like an hour or so more for input on my MM plan too. Anyone is welcome to propose a better one. I will continue the game to like turn 65-70 to see how it looks with and without being lucky with Hindu in Mantra. If someone thinks building/chopping a settler instead of the SH will be better, please make a sandbox, so we can compare results to turn 65-70.
     
  17. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Played till turn 72. Here are screens. May have been a bit better, as I played it only once after turn 55.

    5 cities, 6 to be from the next turn, 56 beakers at -21gpt, Math in 3 turns, 64 food with 3 granaries ;) 10 warriors fogbusting/sentrynetting (I could have settled the fifth city on top of the copper if we see danger and need spear/axes, or we can have Archery in 3 turns to fend off Dogs and advanced barbs.)

    Say how it feels to you.

    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :
     
  18. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    Turn 72 without copper is risky IMO. What if someone comes along and chops the Temple of Artemis in a border city to steal it from us culturally? :mischief:

    Are we not going to build a pasture on the Terasvin cows? I think getting Terasvin online as a production city is a priority, especially if it becomes the holy city.

    EDIT: Forgot to add that the rest of the plan is great! :goodjob:
     
  19. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Awesome 2metra, thanks for the solid micro plan. I have some slight reservations about SH myself, so I might try your micro with a Settler build in there instead. For this turn, though, I absolutely think we should switch over to your plan.

    The Germans have been holding the turn to be the last to end turn for awhile now, so we might be taking it right down to the very end, which is another 3 hours. If 2metra isn't going to be around, is there anyone who can play the turn after the Germans, but before the timer switches over (or in the final minutes, if the Germans don't play at all)? The picture instructions leave things pretty clear. I also put this micro in the spreadsheet through T55 for easy reference.
     
  20. grant2004

    grant2004 Citizen

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    I'm liking this micro plan a lot. Aside from the teams that started with mysticism, we haven't seen a lot of interest in people going for it. Maybe that implies we'll have a good shot at Stonehenge. We can cross our fingers.

    I believe with the current group of warriors we'll be able to send out 1 more scout to meet our eastern neighbor, that should be fine in the short term. Maybe, we'll also have a few of the other teams picking up the slack and coming to meet us, right now it feels like we're doing all the work :). So I don't mind losing out on a few warriors in the short term to grab a wonder. Especially one that will give us more flexibility with city placement.

    I have a question about the forest chops for SH. It looks like you pre-chop 3 forests, but only finish chopping two to finish the wonder. It looks like the timing works out so that the wonder finishes then, but what if we had one of the other workers help with the forest chops for a little while. Could we get SH done sooner? If we can this would buy us a couple extra turns of culture from the monument in Mentra and would get us access to that gold sooner.
     

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