Turn 3450 - The Legion

[Dell19]

Well no Barbs were found from the hut and instead we got a legion. Interestingly the Legion could reach Thunderfalls at the same time as the horseman. Its possible that the land may be joined to the east of the horse so that could be interesting.

RC is now building a Phalanx since it seemed the more sensible option since the thread was quite old. TF is building a settler but we may need a poll to decide which unit to bring back to the city.

The Archer, Legion and Chariot all have one move left but the horseman has moved this turn. Also we are researching Ceremonial Burial at the moment as Bronze working was completed.

Heres the Saved game, hopefully it will be in the correct version this time.

 

[Dell19]

Heres a picture of the continent

 

[Octavian X]

The legion would be better for keeping the peace in ThunderFalls. I'd recommend keeping that horsemen out for exploring purposes, especially is that land is an isthums instead of a peninsula, as I think it is. Besides, the legion has a higher defense than a horseman.

 

[Jayne]

I agree!

 

[duke o' york]

Stick the legion back into the city and then get the rest exploring if you reckon it'll get there at the same time as the horseman. We found a river as well! This is definitely trade wonderland! For the time being, though, I have to maintain that the Gem City is best for the SSC.

 

[Zwelgje]

That's a good result from the hut, another unit, we haven't been unlucky at all with the units we've gotten from the huts!

At gems city we haven't found a fourth special. Can someone tell if we will get a special there anyway when we mine that piece of land?

I think we should get the legion to TFalls as it will be there in 6 turns and the horseman will be there in 6 turns as well (following the path mentioned in the exploration thread), this will be just in time to avoid unhappiness.

In the mean time the chariot and horseman can go on exploring the land in the north, who knows how far this land extends!!!

 

[Zwelgje]

Originally posted by Dell19
RC is now building a Phalanx since it seemed the more sensible option since the thread was quite old. TF is building a settler but we may need a poll to decide which unit to bring back to the city.

I'd like to see RC switch to wonder production in stead of a unit and bring the archer to RC to avoid unhappiness and provide defense as the defense of an archer is the same as a phalanx (right?).

Extra: the archer hasn't moved yet so if it moves this turn in the direction of RC it will take 8 more turns to reach RC. Can someone predict when unhappiness will be a problem in RC? If unhappiness occurs sooner we may want to choose to let the horseman stay at RC until the archer has arrived.

 

[GaryNemo]

Surely the Legion is a better attacker, assuming we find a hapless AI to the NorthWest. And if we loose it, we haven't lost a None. Let's bring back the Archer to guard. And plan TFalls to IPRB a Phalanx to accelerate the Settler.

The next big decision may be:
What do we build next in RC? Temple? Colossus?

 

[starlifter]

Heres the Saved game, hopefully it will be in the correct version this time.

Hurrah! You have Civ2.42 working! I downloaded & tested the file in 2.42, and it works properly! Be sure and go back, and make a post (start a new thread if you don't already have one there) to the Civ 2 Tech Support Forum about what the problem was, and the things you eventually did to solve it. That will help others in the future who might be in the same boat.


I agree with GaryNemo.

In RC, the Phalanx will finish in 2 days (15s+2*3s > 20s). The next 3 citizens can be controlled with Mil Units, so build Colossus immediately when the Phalanx is done. Temple will probably need to be RB's after the 1st wonder, then back to making wonders (or caravans, if Trade by then).




Science: Researching CB. Will have CB on the 6th day from now (5b+3b*6 > 22b). On the 7th day, our science output will almost double, and we should get the next advance in 5 or 6 more days.

by Octavian X:

The legion would be better for keeping the peace in ThunderFalls. I'd recommend keeping that horsemen out for exploring purposes,

The problem with that is the home of the units. The legion is RC, and the horseman is NONE. You must never lose a NONE in early game, if at all possible. They are too valuable. Exploring is a high-risk endeavor. Also, you must have double move unit to kill barb leaders and get the 150gold in the core empire. Plus, a double move unit can use the roads to put out the happiness fires.

What this means is: Horseman should stay in core. Happiness is Job1, and soon it will be needed in RC, though TFalls needs it now.

The NONE Archer can return and protect a city, since it will be fairly safe. The Legion and Chariot can explore, and team up to pop huts, and maybe kill a Civ if we find one. That river implies there is more to the North.


by Civ1-Addict:

Extra: the archer hasn't moved yet so if it moves this turn in the direction of RC it will take 8 more turns to reach RC. Can someone predict when unhappiness will be a problem in RC?

On the 6th turn from now, RC will be in Anarchy, if the Phalanx is not completed. The Phalanx should be completed. Then a Wonder started. In 5+15+1=21 turns, RC will grow again, and need another unit (a support warrior from City #4, or TFalls).



Remember, the Legion is supported... any supported unit is expendable, but the NONEs are not. That's why the Legion should explore for now (and let the Chariot go with it... but if dieing is to be done, let the legion do it!).

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by civ1-addict
At gems city we haven't found a fourth special. Can someone tell if we will get a special there anyway when we mine that piece of land?

Yes, it will be a special. Unfortunately, without knowing what special it is we can't try to predict what the special in the ocean would be for RC (either fish or whale).

 

[duke o' york]

Yeah! Let's go and see if we can find someone who is tough enough to kill our legion! I never bother with building legions myself, so it will be interesting to see the best way to use it. I suggest that it be used to explore any terrain with movement penalties and defensive bonuses if possible because that will enhance its abilities. A vet would be nice if possible, and then he can pop all the mountainous huts we find. Of course, maybe the land doesn't stretch too much further, but as starlifter said, I haven't seen too many rivers of only a couple of squares so that suggests we still have exploration to do! In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a network of rivers hereabouts so that we have another potential SSC candidate.
It will mean we can explore a lot quicker though. This seems to be setting us up for a science slingshot at the start with the starting terrain we've got and we don't want to disappoint! Let's get our super science cities up and running.

 

[Zwelgje]

Wow we've got a multiple SSC game on our hands here!

 

[starlifter]

Yes, it will be a special. Unfortunately, without knowing what special it is we can't try to predict what the special in the ocean would be for RC (either fish or whale).

You right, at the moment. However, there is a way... if the land continues. The patterns of special types might be inferred by careful comparison to the Master Pattern in the BC3550 thread as we discover more up north. Unfortunately, the key terrain we keep needing to see is always either at sea (2nd tile out), or grassland!!! It is as if the game is toying with us.

For the SSC (Gems City or RC), it is important that we figure out what the grassland is (fish or whale). If Whale, we should road it for now, and transform it to Hills (Wine!) asap (with Explosives/Engineers). If it is a fish, then we might as well settle for a mine (to get Forest... which will be a Pheasant). Then irrigate the pheasant as appropriate (e.g., if trade is more useful than food, which will be the case by some point).

BTW, Another option is just to to a John Wayne and Mine... if a Silk emerges, well, it's not near as good as Wine, but still OK. A John Wayne transform (a blind transform) shoud not be done in a trade city, as the result of a fish land tile would be coal (no trade, wince no river thru it).

 

[Leowind]

I was thinking along GaryNemo/starlifter's line of keeping the Legion out exploring in case we run across another civ.

 

[Serutan]

Originally posted by starlifter


The problem with that is the home of the units. The legion is RC, and the horseman is NONE. You must never lose a NONE in early game, if at all possible. They are too valuable. Exploring is a high-risk endeavor.

I sort of see your point, but I think that at this stage, we
need to see how much land lies in that E/NE section, as it
looks likely to be an isthmus. After all, we can
reduce the risk somewhat by not popping huts, and IMHO
we need to see if there's an AI civ lurking up there.
Or to put it another way, I think the reward in terms
of knowledge outweighs the risk.

My $.02

 

[Dell19]

The horseman may actually best. If you look at the map, its quite possible that the northen land will curve round so that we will be able to explore the land without a trireme. Any the horseman will still explore abit before returning so we will at least see what the land is like. We may find we are on quite a large continent.

Btw Legions are not very good for fighting because the Ai will get Pikeman too quickly and then their 4 attack isn't good enough, especially with only one movement point. Although we could get lucky.

 

[duke o' york]

Don't forget that the pikeman only gets the defensive bonus against mounted troops (those with a move of 2) so against the chariot then they would be formidable but against the legion or archer then they are no better than phalanxes.

 

[Dell19]

Well their main problem is the movement. Unless some previous civ has left some nice railroads you have to move them right up to the city walls, allowing them to attack and usually they will win unless they only have a few troops.

 

[Dell19]

I will probably play the game next on Friday depending on how the decision making goes.

 

[ainwood]

Sooooo.......

What is the plan if we do find a civ to the north?

I would think that if we find a city defended by only one unit, then the AI may not attack the legion, and the issue of one movement point may be a non-issue (especially if we can move to a hill / mountain / forest for the defence bonus).

Where I'm going with this, and how it relates to the discussions is whether we want the units sent to explore to stay near each other. If they are close, it will make taking a city much more likely. Or then again, do we even risk a "non" chariot against the ai, and just retain it for exploration.

I would be keen on keeping the legion near to the chariot, and using both offensively (legion attacking first, though). The risk here is that exploration will suffer. But what are we actually trying to achieve with exploration anyway? I think that it is actually all about finding the nearest civs early enough to wipe them out.


Re-reading the above, it is a bit all-over-the-place-ish, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.