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Turn 51-100

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by Caledorn, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    We should definitely take the barb city now while we have Axes and they have only warriors. Waiting for the city to start spawning Archers would be a mistake... ESPECIALLY since the city is on a hill. Also, the city can already work the improved Corn and improved Mine that is not being used.

    When we capture the city, it drops to Pop 1 right? Then we work the mine to build a monumnet while the city grows. By the time it gets to Pop 2 those 7-9 turns will have passed, and we will have Workers there to improve the tiles, right?

    About the roads... I don't like the idea of getting roads in the wilderness that we can't defend from barbs. Is there a way to get those areas covered by our culture quickly after they are finished?
     
  2. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    The barb fun continues. I have moved 1 axe to possibly block the route for the barb worker to escape when we close to take the city and uncovered whole barbarian state with roads connecting cities, travelers going forth and back and what not!

    Spoiler :



    My question here is do you guys agree we must take Assyrian now. And if when we storm it and discover that the Worker is not there, do we follow and assault the other "Zulu" barb city? If we capture the Zulu barb city, what we do with it? We keep it? Or we raze it? Or we take it and gift it to SpAp to show good will and let them develop it for us?
     
  3. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    That is fun! I say take it and gift it to the Spaniards. It'll be our fastest trade connection to them. We should also ask them again about a NAP. If we are increasingly convinced they will not be our first conquest, then I feel it might be smart to share UCiv's newest soldier build-up with them.

    Spoiler :
    That's actually making me a bit nervous. Our NAP with UCiv has expired, so even though I don't think they would have anything to gain by attacking us, we do need to be careful with Raj.

    I also highlighted some of the events over to the side. I forgot to mention that someone got a GS on T96. And wouldn't you know it, Rival Best GNP shot up from 202 to 270 on T97. Right now Rival Best GNP is showing up as an unknown Civ, so that might be PHI Poly, or else CP or CivFr. We already knew about the peace between WPC and the Germans, so nothing new there. The last thing is that RB just revolted into HR and OR this turn. I think they just finished Monarchy this turn.
     
  4. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Yossa, can we get an educated guess of how many beakers RB are making per turn knowing they finished Monarchy this turn and which turn they finished their last tech? I took few interesting demographics screenshots where we see how much gold is costing RB each turn at 100% science slider. If we know how much beakers they are making, this can tell us how many libraries they possibly have and what is the real size of their economics. I think that this huge GNP of theirs -280 - is made of about 50 culture (1000 years old SH+monuments, Hindu shrine, religion in most of their cities + 2-3 libraries maybe) and some income from trade routes (I would say about 20-30 commerce more than us from having routes to other team/s and having Currency for second trade route in each of their cities). Plus they have the Hindu shrine income in pure gold coins - thats about 10 more. So they have ~90 GNP from culture and alternative sources. This leaves them with about 190 "pure gnp" (if such term exists LOL).
     
  5. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    As for Uciv increase in military, I think we have not much to worry. If you look careful, you will see their military started to grow the same turn as ours own starts to grow. And I give this to our both teams starting to enjoy Monarchy and MP and to the increased need of soldiers to serve as MP in the growing cities. Still good point about Raj. I will try to send an outpost in the jungles as soon as possible for barb fogbusting and early enemy warning.

    I think it was RB switching to 100% science and not the newly built Academy for some team. Our capitol is very well cottage-spammed and size 10 and would make 50 commerce easy on her own. I doubt there are many other cities out there like Indira. And it must be three times better developed capitol to be able with 50% more science from an Academy to give those whooping 70 GNP more.
     
  6. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Also, can I have your opinion on something, guys:



    I think it is worth if we send 4 workers to connect with roads our empire to RB. We will get about 8-9 commerce per turn for free (up to 24-27 more commerce per turn in just 6 turns after we get Currency) and we dont need those workers around Astan right now and we will get our axe on the desert hill to have a look at what is the situation with the Stone and to be ready to protect our settler, who will use part of those roads to get to where we can/decide our Isthmus city is going to be.
     
  7. talonschild

    talonschild Drive-By NESer

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    Sure, why not? Nice font, BTW.
     
  8. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    LOL, knew you will like it guys.
     
  9. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Am I right that roads even without being in our or RB culture can give us trade routes?
     
  10. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Yeah, that's correct.
     
  11. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    That font is cool... Creepy, but cool:scared:... Is it called "Serial Killer" or "Murder" or "Redrum" or something like that ?:evil:

    Anyway 2metra I have a question of only minor importance... Why did you not join the Axes up in the forest West of Assyrian and then move them next to the city together? I ask because sometimes the AI starts pumping out defenders 1 per turn only once you come adjacent to the city or within its culture. Not very important, but I was curious. When I saw the Axes last turn I thought for sure you would stack them in the forest before advancing on the city.

    Also, why cant we capture both cities and kepp both of them? It is kind of like a bait city for SpAp, but without "pink dotting" them because the barbs did it for us. Then we can open (lengthy) "negotiations" for us where we imply, suggest, hint, but never promise that we might give them the city in exchange for X
     
  12. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Few things actually made me do it as this. I though Barbs start to build units when the "see" your units and if that is right, then we could not move without them being alarmed. Next thing is I saw they will have a third warrior join in the city - the one who was on the road between the two cities. And I was able to move 1 axe to attack this turn and with the next turn third warrior coming in to the city, they will have 2 warriors and we - 2 ready to attack axes, so we take the city 1 or even 2 turns before if we were to join axes first. Last thing, they are only warriors. Our 2 axes must be able to eat them alive in order of appearance :D

    As for the "Zulu" barb city, I dont know - it is much in their sphere of influence. Also we have 2 cities to settle in rapid succession in territory where we need to "call on" the city location with SpAp - the Desert hill city and the Marble city in the northeast. If we settle those and keep the barb city, wouldnt this make them mad at us and attack us just to prove a point when they dont have big hopes for winning the game? People with nothing to lose are dangerous.
     
  13. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Here is my thinking... We capture the city, and this shows not only that we are willing to fight, but it also shows we are READY to fight. SpAp will think one of two things...

    1. Hmmm those guys are fighters, better to negotiate with them (Maybe give us a nice long NAP in exchange for the city? :yup:)

    2. How dare they take a city so close! We will take it back at all costs! Even if it is the last thing we do! -- Now if this is their choice, then fine, we will see this coming when they refuse to talk and start building army... let them amass to take back the stupid barb city way in the tundra south while we attack their good cities in the North.-- This at least solves the problem of who to fight first. Are SpAp not the weakest powergraph in the game?
     
  14. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    :)
    My thinking too - with one mediocre (from what we see so far) city we can get great political gain. With spending few turns in the open with 2-3 axes, we will get a gift card, worth 1 AGG neighbor less to worry for. Also, we give it back to them, they build farms, slowly grow cottages, whip EXP granary, pay maintenance, etc for the next 50-60 turns and then we can come ant take it- size 7-8-10 with infrastructure and hopefully built-it buildings.

    Yes, they are indeed. Still, whipped AGG axes + AGG Impis are pain to deal with so early with non-AGG units.

    edit: after re-reading your post, am got it correct that you imply that we give them the Zulu-barb city in exchange of them giving us NAP... or you aresuggesting that SpAp will be terrified and prefer to propose us the right to keep the city if we give them a NAP? LOL
     
  15. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    I don't know how relevant this is to what you guys are discussing, but all forms of city gifting is banned by the rules I believe. Letting them capture the city would be an attempt at going around a rule I think?
     
  16. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    Is it at all possible that the second city was captured from SpAp? It seems a little too close to have just spawned there, and I have never seen independently spawned barb cities connected to each other before. :confused:
     
  17. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Hmm, got a point, Cal. So, are we trying to set up something like "come near the Barb city, we will batter it down to 1 defender, so you can take it" or?

    I dont think it was captured. Yossa would have noticed and told us. Poor SpAp just dont have the economics to allow themselves one more city, especially semi-good positioned one. Or they are waiting it to mature to size 2 before they take it? I have seen whole barb empires on islands btw.
     
  18. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Is this still the relevant rule?

    If yes, then I guess the only way to "give" them the city back would be to let them capture it.

    What do you mean by "going around a rule"?
     
  19. Caledorn

    Caledorn Emperor

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    From the Final Ruleset thread:

    What I mean by "going around a rule" (I am not familiar with the proper english term for the expression - it's a direct translation for a norwegian expression) is this: If we capture the city and let SpAp declare war upon us so they can capture the city, we are indirectly breaking the rule by creating a scenario where SpAp is not intentionally going to war upon us, but only intend to capture one of our cities with our written permission. Thus, we are in effect and for all legalese purposes gifting them a city, by using a back door approach which I think would be frowned heavily upon by all the other teams and the game admin.
     
  20. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    I think it is not at all something to be frowned upon. There are many reasons for this. But as the main reason for city gifting to be banned is to prevent "gift-upgrade-gift back" cycles or "gift-city-repulse-enemy-gift back" tricks or "gift city to prevent capture" or "gift city to keep a nation alive" or "gift city, steal tech, gift back" and so on, I think this "workaround" with leaving a city empty is nothing to be worried about as it have nothing to do with those few scenarios.

    Even more, we might not at all take the city from the barbs, but just kill all defenders but one and invite SpAp to come and take it.
     

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