Turnabout in Iraq

BasketCase

Username sez it all
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
13,024
Location
Closer than you'd like
The plot thickens.

Failed Suicide Bomber Turns on Al-Qaeda

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia -- Ahmad al Shayea is the rarest of truck bombers -- he survived his suicide mission in Iraq even though the blast from his bomb was strong enough to kill 12 bystanders.

Al Shayea, who was disfigured during the attack, claims al Qaeda tricked him into becoming a bomber by asking him to deliver a tanker truck, which they had rigged with a bomb.

"They told me to take it to an address in Baghdad. As soon as I got there the truck exploded," said the native of Saudi Arabia. He survived by jumping out of the truck.

Al Shayea renounced terrorism and returned to Saudi Arabia, where he works to convince would-be insurgents and terrorists to give up their deadly ways.

"I think God took me out of death to show others what can happen," he told CNN. "If you join al Qaeda, they will use you, and maybe you will die."

Al Qaeda propaganda videos glorify so-called foreign fighters in Iraq like al Shayea. It has recruited them from countries all across the Middle East.

Some Iraqi officials say more Saudis than any other nationality have responded to al Qaeda's call. Saudi officials and the U.S. military deny that claim. But Saudi sources do admit that more than 800 young Saudis have gone to Iraq to fight. That's far more than the Saudi government has acknowledged until now.

Since 9/11, when 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis, the oil rich kingdom has been accused of spreading radicalism. It's a claim that stings this longtime U.S. ally, which also finds itself in al Qaeda's cross hairs.

So now, Saudi officials say they are escalating their fight against homegrown al Qaeda militants. Former insurgents and terrorists like al Shayea are their chief weapon in the battle for the hearts and minds of young Saudis.

"The reality behind it is the religious misunderstanding of Islam, so we have to correct the ideas," said Dr. Mansour al Turki, a psychologist.

Al Shayea and hundreds of other Saudis who were aligned with terrorists are being re-educated in prisons and rehabilitation centers. They are taught that al Qaeda's emphasis on a violent approach to Islam is wrong.

The program offers early release from prison. It's available only to captured jihadis who demonstrate a willingness to change over the course of repeated interviews with specialists. Al Shayea said he was questioned by security forces, then clerics, then psychologists.

"They looked at my mood, listened to me. They were nice," he adds.

Al Turki said the review is thorough.

"We make sure he understands dialogue. We make sure he is not just lying. So it is not an easy job I can assure you," he said.

The Saudi government says more than 1,000 former al Qaeda recruits have been through the program. Seven hundred of them are now free. Critics, mainly from the country's security forces, fear mistakes could allow some al Qaeda fighters back on the street.

A native of Saudi Arabia, al Shayea was just 19 when he went to Iraq to fight for al Qaeda against American forces. He was angered, he said, by scenes of U.S. troops killings his fellow Muslims.

"I went to Iraq with Saudi men because jihad is a duty for every Muslim," he said. "I went to Iraq to fight the jihad and kill Americans."

He was hoping to take up arms against Americans, but said he never envisioned himself as a suicide bomber. After his truck bomb exploded, al Shayea was captured and paraded on Iraqi TV. Burned and bandaged, he was blamed for the death of 12 bystanders. He confessed.

Iraqi security officials deported him to Saudi Arabia. Today, with the backing of the Saudi government, al Shayea gets his anti-al Qaeda message out on fliers that include pictures of him before and after his bombing. He has become the anti-Al Qaeda example.

"I learned my lesson, and others will learn as well," he said.

Not too many definite things can be drawn from this, but there are many possibilities. Maybe this guy just made up the "I didn't know the truck was carrying a bomb" story to hoodwink the authorities after his own bomb failed to kill him. Or maybe it reveals Al-Qaeda's willingness to betray loyalties. Or maybe it means Al-Qaeda is running out of suicide bombers if it's having to trick people into doing their dirty work for them.

No way to know for sure--but when I read this, I kept remembering how the first crack in the USSR went completely unnoticed. When the Berlin Wall finally came down, I was taken completely by surprise, and spent the whole day gaping at the TV set and wondering how I didn't see it coming.
 
Not too many definite things can be drawn from this, but there are many possibilities. Maybe this guy just made up the "I didn't know the truck was carrying a bomb" story to hoodwink the authorities after his own bomb failed to kill him. Or maybe it reveals Al-Qaeda's willingness to betray loyalties. Or maybe it means Al-Qaeda is running out of suicide bombers if it's having to trick people into doing their dirty work for them.

No way to know for sure--but when I read this, I kept remembering how the first crack in the USSR went completely unnoticed. When the Berlin Wall finally came down, I was taken completely by surprise, and spent the whole day gaping at the TV set and wondering how I didn't see it coming.

Aaaah, some well deserved good news!

Re the specific case of al Shayea: I think that a lot more suicide bombers are unwilling patsy then we think. After all, if you put yourself in the mindset of a radical terror cell, who would make the better sacrifice? The commited, knowledgeable jihadi who can recruit others, or the reluctant waffler, who can be turned into a symbolic martyr after the fact? If terror cells can use children to fulfill thier means, I don't think that tricking people into killing themselves could be that far off...

Re the reeducation of terrorists:
I had read about the re-education centres in Saudi Arabia a little while ago in Foreign Policy magazine, and I have to admit, it looks to me like the best way to combat terrorism on an individual basis that I have heard. Captured terrorists are given a chance to hear about the other side of the story on islamism, are allowed to talk with each other about what they think, and are even encouraged to have visits from family and friends from the outside.

After reading about it struck me just how stupid it would be to:

(a) keep a terrorist suspect in isolation where his/her only source of strength is to convince him/herself that what they were doing was right.

(b) kill them, enrage his/her friends, and create 5 new potential terrorists in the process.

Knowledge is our best tool in this fight: if we can convince enough fundementalists to stop using violence to achieve thier means, they will serve as good alternative to those who embrace islam but are unsure as to how live thier lives by irts principles. Isolating them can only harden thier resolve, and make martyrs of them.
 
Aaaah, some well deserved good news!

Re the specific case of al Shayea: I think that a lot more suicide bombers are unwilling patsy then we think. After all, if you put yourself in the mindset of a radical terror cell, who would make the better sacrifice? The commited, knowledgeable jihadi who can recruit others, or the reluctant waffler, who can be turned into a symbolic martyr after the fact? If terror cells can use children to fulfill thier means, I don't think that tricking people into killing themselves could be that far off...

Re the reeducation of terrorists:
I had read about the re-education centres in Saudi Arabia a little while ago in Foreign Policy magazine, and I have to admit, it looks to me like the best way to combat terrorism on an individual basis that I have heard. Captured terrorists are given a chance to hear about the other side of the story on islamism, are allowed to talk with each other about what they think, and are even encouraged to have visits from family and friends from the outside.

After reading about it struck me just how stupid it would be to:

(a) keep a terrorist suspect in isolation where his/her only source of strength is to convince him/herself that what they were doing was right.

(b) kill them, enrage his/her friends, and create 5 new potential terrorists in the process.

Knowledge is our best tool in this fight: if we can convince enough fundementalists to stop using violence to achieve thier means, they will serve as good alternative to those who embrace islam but are unsure as to how live thier lives by irts principles. Isolating them can only harden thier resolve, and make martyrs of them.

Too little too late. Maybe if the american empire leaves iraq then we can talk!
 
Too little too late. Maybe if the american empire leaves iraq then we can talk!
George, if America is an empire, then we're a pretty sucky one. No one pays us tribute. We don't get hot female slaves from neighboring nations to ravage on a yearly basis. Africa doesn't send us tigers and giraffes to keep our goodwill, and no one sends us bundles of gold to keep us from invading and stealing all of it ourselves. We don't even have an emperor!

Seriously, comparing the modern USA to an empire is pretty absurd. Who ever heard of an empire that didn't demand tribute, that outlawed slavery, that recognized other nations as equals with equal sovereign rights, with an emperor at its head that voluntarily left office every four or eight years? Why, that sounds more like....a democratic republic! :lol:
 
We can't be an Empire, because the Emperor is already in Rome!


Best photochop ever.


This reminds me of the little kid these ****** terrorists strapped a bomb to and told to walk up to some US military in Afghanistan. They told him when he detonated the vest flowers would come out. Smart kid didn't by it and went to the US soldiers to help him.

These are the type of animals we are dealing with. They use children and other patsies to kill civilians and soldier alike.
 
This sounds like a very good program. In fact, I would suspect that efforts like this are extremely effective at countering terrorism. Imagine if Saudi schools taught that Islam should be pursued only peacefully.
 
This sounds like a very good program. In fact, I would suspect that efforts like this are extremely effective at countering terrorism. Imagine if Saudi schools taught that Islam should be pursued only peacefully.

that would be ideal..

This is some long-awaited good news. But I hardly see how things can majorly change given this one incident. But some good news here, after all.
 
Who ever heard of an empire that didn't demand tribute, that outlawed slavery, that recognized other nations as equals with equal sovereign rights, with an emperor at its head that voluntarily left office every four or eight years? Why, that sounds more like....a democratic republic! :lol:

The British Empire outlawed slavery. The British Empire recognized other nations as equals with equal sovereign rights. The British Empire elected a new "emperor" at frequent intervals. Err, your point was? :lol:
 
The British Empire outlawed slavery. The British Empire recognized other nations as equals with equal sovereign rights. The British Empire elected a new "emperor" at frequent intervals. Err, your point was? :lol:

What was yours? The British empire invented divide and conquer. One could say the British Empire is responsible for the conflict in Kashmir. The British Empire seperated Pakistan. The British Empire created the false borders of Iraq. To really play devils advocate, the British Empire is responsible for the mess in Israel.

Britain was generally better in regards to how they handled their African colonies, but they have some remaining disasters left in their wake as well.

Were you suggesting that the British Empire was better, or more moral than America or something? Less blood on the hands?
 
Two things. America isnt an empire. And its never too late.

Anytime a country capitulates to another country that last country is an empire (maybe an de facto one but still one!) And their was a report about Afganistan people that said if we don't we their hearts over the summer we will never. Hey guess what the Repukes did about 4 years ago?? Yup, thats right they cut and ran from Afganistan.

George, if America is an empire, then we're a pretty sucky one.
Yup we are and people are thinking that we are more and more

No one pays us tribute.
Sure they do in blood!! THats what our Furor wants!
We don't get hot female slaves from neighboring nations to ravage on a yearly basis.
UMM sure we do if you didn't know their still is slavery in the USA (Of course its illegal but i don't see the feds doing anything about it!)
Africa doesn't send us tigers and giraffes to keep our goodwill, and no one sends us bundles of gold to keep us from invading and stealing all of it ourselves. We don't even have an emperor!
Oil is the new gold and i see people sending it alot to the american pigs!

The British empire invented divide and conquer.
Thats what we are doing!!

One could say the British Empire is responsible for the conflict in Kashmir
One could say the American Empire is responsible for most of the terrorism is the world!
To really play devils advocate, the British Empire is responsible for the mess in Israel.
One could say that it doesn't matter who really created the border if you supply that country with weapons you are as guilty as they are!~
Were you suggesting that the British Empire was better, or more moral than America or something? Less blood on the hands?
Sure i am because the american empire doesn't care about anything but their Furor's kids and the kids of the "rich people". Wheres the outrage when america supplyed Israel with illegal weapons and when israel used those weapons? We will pay dearly for our blind support of a crazy person and israel!

The dictionary states an empire is: supreme power in governing; imperial power; sovereignty Thats see the president can declare anyone a terrorists, can sign a "statement" that gives all our assets to the president. (I'm not even talking about the VP. Isn't his logic that says hes above the law?)
 
Following his first visit on September 2005, he told one of Iran's radical clerics that during his speech at the UN someone had told him that he was "surrounded by a divine halo" and that the attention of all the world's leaders was focused on him.

Ahmadinejad had said at the time, "I also felt that, and I sensed that the atmosphere had suddenly changed and that all the leaders did not even blink for about 27 or 28 minutes, and I'm not exaggerating."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3449388,00.html

Emperor?
Syria and Lebenon pay tribute in blood, etc.
 
(b) kill them, enrage his/her friends, and create 5 new potential terrorists in the process.
I don't know about you, but I wholly support the Pert Plus doctrine of anti-terrorism; rinse and repeat.

If that means we have to kill 10,000,000 armed radicals, then so be it.
 
Anytime a country capitulates to another country that last country is an empire [snip]

Lovely stuff...no matter what we do, it's wrong. In the name of our Fuhrer, too! Boy, that name never gets old. I do notice a large void of proof in all those complaints, however.



As for the OP, hey, if it works, then we get another tool we can use on the road to victory and (hopefully) the eventual end of this extremism. It won't mean an end to the combat, nor should it, as there are definitely times when it is needed. But I'm all for adding another item to our tool belt.
 
I don't know about you, but I wholly support the Pert Plus doctrine of anti-terrorism; rinse and repeat.

If that means we have to kill 10,000,000 armed radicals, then so be it.

HMm doesn't that sound like something that hitler said?? BTW who defines what a terrorists or a freedom fighter is?
 
Anytime a country capitulates to another country that last country is an empire (maybe an de facto one but still one!)

Ummmm. No.

And their was a report about Afganistan people that said if we don't we their hearts over the summer we will never. Hey guess what the Repukes did about 4 years ago?? Yup, thats right they cut and ran from Afganistan.

Uhhh. Again, wrong. I got friends over there right now. You are simply incorrect. Again.

Sure they do in blood!! THats what our Furor wants!

Cindy Sheehan...is that you?

UMM sure we do if you didn't know their still is slavery in the USA (Of course its illegal but i don't see the feds doing anything about it!)

Still slavery? :crazyeye: Now you really have lost it.

One could say the American Empire is responsible for most of the terrorism is the world!

Well, if one were deluded and rather unstable in the head, I suppose one could.

Sure i am because the american empire doesn't care about anything but their Furor's kids and the kids of the "rich people".

Again, totally wrong.

Wheres the outrage when america supplyed Israel with illegal weapons and when israel used those weapons?

What illegal weapons?:crazyeye:

We will pay dearly for our blind support of a crazy person and israel!

Are you an anti-semite as well? Sure looks that way. Whats wrong with supporting Israel?
 
Lovely stuff...no matter what we do, it's wrong. In the name of our Fuhrer, too! Boy, that name never gets old. I do notice a large void of proof in all those complaints, however.
Yup the whole american empire is wrong from the start to bad the british civil war ended badly for the britians! What did we do from 1790's to early 1900? yup thats right we had slaves, we killed people that we thought deserved to die. With logic like that what makes up better then the "terrorists" that we are fighting?



As for the OP, hey, if it works, then we get another tool we can use on the road to victory and (hopefully) the eventual end of this extremism. It won't mean an end to the combat, nor should it, as there are definitely times when it is needed. But I'm all for adding another item to our tool belt.
One vs 1,000's thats hardly anything. BTW how does a 3rd party win a civil war? Congtraz to the greenspan for saying bush went into iraq for oil! (lets see how many repukes rebuff him!)
 
Ummmm. No.
Sure it is



Uhhh. Again, wrong. I got friends over there right now. You are simply incorrect. Again.
So? We have more over in iraq? (So your saying that if we cut the american forces in iraq to a few thousand its ok?)



Cindy Sheehan...is that you?
Of course not. If you get me mad and i actually do something about it i can be MUCH worse then her. Sometimes under the right set of conditions terrorism can be justified (No i'm not a muslim) and rarely as a last resort suicide bombing can be justified



Still slavery? :crazyeye: Now you really have lost it.
You know the illegal slave trade (aka sex slave. Its alive in well inthe US or i can talk about the illegals that work in the USA or i can talk about the 25 cents that the chineses get in china or the 12 cents the north korean's get.)



Well, if one were deluded and rather unstable in the head, I suppose one could.
Our own intel says we are making more terrorism in the world. Unless of course you think that our intel is wrong.



Again, totally wrong.
How many "rich peoples" kids are in iraq? (I can count 2 or 3 repuke kids that are in the miltary)



What illegal weapons?:crazyeye:
Cluster bombs that israel used on civs last summer



Are you an anti-semite as well? Sure looks that way. Whats wrong with supporting Israel?
Whats wrong with supporting an apartheid gov't?? Lots of thing. (Unless your in the state of mind that thinks its not apartheid but fair. [Hey you and foxnews got something in common]!)
 
So? We have more over in iraq? (So your saying that if we cut the american forces in iraq to a few thousand its ok?)

We have more in Iraq because we need more in Iraq. Different situations, different requirements.

Of course not. If you get me mad and i actually do something about it i can be MUCH worse then her.

:lol: I am betting not.

Sometimes under the right set of conditions terrorism can be justified (No i'm not a muslim) and rarely as a last resort suicide bombing can be justified

I disagree that terrorism can be justified. But then again, I am not a terrorists sympathizer either.

You know the illegal slave trade (aka sex slave. Its alive in well inthe US or i can talk about the illegals that work in the USA or i can talk about the 25 cents that the chineses get in china or the 12 cents the north korean's get.)

Sigh. People get arrested for illegal stuff...hence..its illegal. And illegals, who work for pay...arent slaves either. That wasnt even a nice try at that, but rather lame.

Our own intel says we are making more terrorism in the world. Unless of course you think that our intel is wrong.

Again, I would rather face more terrorism by confronting it, than allowing it to prey upon us without resistance.

How many "rich peoples" kids are in iraq? (I can count 2 or 3 repuke kids that are in the miltary)

Actually, there are quite a few kids of senators that serve in the military. Your allegation is crap.

Cluster bombs that israel used on civs last summer

Not illegal. Its the basic rocket of the MLRS system which both the US and Israel use.

Whats wrong with supporting an apartheid gov't?? Lots of thing. (Unless your in the state of mind that thinks its not apartheid but fair. [Hey you and foxnews got something in common]!)

Its not apartheid. If it were would palistinians and arabs be allowed to serve in the government and even hold office? They do you know.
 
Top Bottom