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Turns 1-20

Discussion in 'The Knights’ Brotherhood' started by Lanzelot, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Ok, let's discuss our start position.



    We have a floodplain, and it's already irrigated. Hmm, this looks too easy for my taste... So 5fpt right from the start. I guess we first build some MP with that growth rate?! Then granary, then a worker and then 4-turn settlers?

    What about the worker? Irrigate the river plain first, so we can sustain our 5fpt up to size 4? Or go on the sugar mountain to see a bit of our terrain?

    What is that on the plain 2NE? Another food resource? Doesn't look like cow or wheat to me. Ivory perhaps? That would also speak for moving worker 1E so we can asap hook up our first lux. With 5fpt we need as much happiness as possible, otherwise our perfect growth rate won't do us much good.

    The first worker can work on that and on improving a couple of plains, the second worker can then go to the W to take care of the grasslands. (Improving plains first should be faster than grasslands.)

    If we don't find one BG in the fog, then we'll need to mine the sugar hill for a 4-turner! So I guess an early second worker is needed as well?!

    Build order: warrior for scouting, 2 warriors for MP, 1 worker (once we reach a size where either missing food or unhappiness becomes a problem), 1 curragh

    Research: start with Writing and hope to meet someone with Pottery early, or start with Pottery? On Emperor level we will certainly not pop a tech from a hut... I would like to play it safe and start with pots.

    Lanzelot
     
  2. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    Settler SW? More Grassland
     
  3. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    In Despotism, plains are better than grassland. (Unless we find a bonus grassland, of course...)

    Edit: and I'm pretty sure, that is indeed an elephant, 2NE, so having that in the big cross would be quite nice for early research. That would be a factor against moving the settler.

    In general I think, the start position is so good there's no reason for moving. The second town can still make use of the grasslands to the W.
     
  4. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    1-4: we use the floodplain (5.0.1)
    5-8: we grow and take the sugar hill as additional tile (2.1.2)
    Turn 9: we grow a second time, and just in time our worker has improved the plain for another (2.1.2) tile. (1 move, 3 road, 4 irrigate). Then the worker can move on and hook up the ivory. That allows growth up to size 4 with 0% lux. So at size 5 we turn out another worker, which can then build a road on the floodplain and move W afterwards.
     
  5. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    I did not make calculations, but intuition says worker first, curragh next. Warrior next, no scouting.
    Settler next. warriors, warriors.
    Writing or Pottery? at 5 fpt Granry is a boost, but it is hard to have it soon.
     
  6. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    I play a little bit in my "Sandkasten" and make a few Tests.
    Worker first is not a good choice. -8ft or -4 commerz

    My favorite:Settler first, best result 3350bc 4-2
    2nd build Granary, 2nd city can build MP

    research=Pottery in 3600bc

    If anybody try:
    Sandkasten Save with all Tiles we can see at the start pic (with Elephant, but i´m not sure)
     

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  7. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    btw:
    If the other Teams have it too. Is this fair? We are industriel. If the other not, they win 1 turn with the worker.
     
  8. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    @ Memento - maybe in fact all the others have 2 luxes and 3 cows, so they found they need to irr our sole extra ressource to make it fair :)

    seriously, irrigition on turn 3 or 4 does not matter in my eyes. it is 1s and 1c max we could gain.

    templar_x
     
  9. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    I would settle down and then look at the screenshot again. There could be little in the fog that would make it attractive to move.
    If it is indeed ivory 2ne, i´d guess worker e (irr, r), then n (irr, r); or 2ne straight and irr, r, if the spreadsheet tells that is the better way to do it (costs only 1 movement point).
    Otherwise i think road the wheat first would be best. and i would like to use the 10s of the forest se for a build rather soon (gran, curr or settler), so we can gain that nice 2f/2c-tile asap and maybe even find a bg under it.
    which civ are we playing as btw? totally forgot... Carthago?

    "Central Castle" as first city name?

    templar_x
     
  10. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Sounds like a plan. Settle in place (what could we gain by moving?) and then we'll have a better picture of where the worker can be employed most usefully.

    I vote for "Camelot" as our capital.

    Regarding the forrest chop: I don't think it's that urgent (unless you desperately need the shields for the granary). We have enough good tiles to work at least up to size 5:
    floodplain, sugar hill, ivory (hopefully) and two river plains. (And perhaps another good tile becomes visible in the fat cross, a river BG would be nice... :please:)
    The plains need improvement really fast, as we will grow faster than our worker can work... Let's first improve a couple of tiles and then schedule the forrest for the granary (or for the first settler if there's another food bonus close by? In general my impression is: if there's another 5fpt site close by, settler first is better, otherwise granary first. What is your experience?)

    I guess the spread sheet can wait until we see the full cross.
     
  11. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Kind of agree. River+forest make worker's moves difficult. Most probably "settler first" is a plan.
    Again, we need a road for Settler. So, we almost decided that Pottery first or we still waiting for big cross?
     
  12. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    More Test:
    1.settled (7f/1s/6c), Worker s.
    2.Worker r
    4.Worker N
    5.3800bc, Pop2 (9/2/8), Worker N, Lux 10%
    6 worker r
    8.worker i
    9.Pop3 (11/3/9) Lux 20% (Pottery if we research it)
    11.Worker E,Culture, change MM to 10/4/9--Settler and growt in 3 R ,( 3350bc)
    or if we research Pottery in R9. change to 11/3/9 growt in 2+7R and build Granary in 7R with Pop5

    same but 1 warrior first=settler in 3300bc
    1 turn later but faster research

    So i think warrior first, 2nd settler
    research Writing for better Chance of Sling
     
  13. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    we really should settle first to see more, then discuss the details of our starting moves.
    as i said, i am not at my civ computer. so could someone take the game at least for the first move, settle and post a screenshot, please.
    indications are against granary first here: we will have the food much faster than we can gather the shields for initial units, gran + be ready for a settler rotation. we simply don´t have enough worker moves and a lot to do.
    what i really want is a bg. either there is one to the sw or i´d chop the forest. by this we get the shields and may fine a bg. i´d hate to use early worker moves to mine a hill, even though we are industrious.
    templar_x
     
  14. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    Looks like a decent starting spot. Settle in place seems best. I like a worker first, but I can go with with what the group decides. Next could be 2 warriors, settler and granary if we can get pottery soon enough. Alternating the forest and the flood plain could give us a second worker at turn 5 or a warrior at that time. If we want to win the race to the slingshot, can we afford to research pottery? I think we can, but you guys are the ones that can understand the spreadsheets. I play by intuition, which can be fallible. Anyway, I'm glad we have something to go on.
     
  15. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    @ Lanzelot - since you are going last in your suggested roster, could you jump in first as a 1-turn player, dl the save, settle down and post a screenie please?

    templar_x
     
  16. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    I can do too
     
  17. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    We still have time...

    Another idea just occured to me: it looks like unhappiness will be our biggest problem. So how about we settle a second town at distance 3 so that it has access to the floodplain as well? The plan would then be:
    • use floodplain to sky-rocket capital to size 4 or 5 (depending on how much luxury we want to use)
    • then spit out settler
    • switch capital to forrest so that it stays at size 5, while collecting a decent amount of shields for the granary
    • let the second town now use the floodplain to sky-rocket it to size 5 as well
    This will maximize our population, while at the same time keeping the lux slider as low as possible. We may even repeat this for the third town and get to 15 population with only 10% lux and win the Philo race that way. (Granary is not necessarily needed for that plan.)
    (Of course if we find a second food bonus, this strategy will not be necessary.)
     
  18. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    Sure Memento, then go ahead. We only have to make sure that we don´t violate any rules for dl or playing a turn.

    Since we all seem to agree to settle in place, i do not see why we have not made that move yet and discuss things knowing a bit more of our surroundings. only then we can make tables that have any use at all.

    templar_x
     
  19. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    I'm not sure whether we are allowed to do so in a pre-save. (I only consider this pre-save here in the first turn as a "screenshot-replacement", as in the beginning it looked like we won't get any screenshots from friepa. At that point Hawkeye (and then myself) decided to help out the following teams quickly and non-bureaucraticly...) But in fact we are playing without pre-saves, so let's just wait. The Küche is cooking for 4 days now, and still no white smoke visible, so we can take our time as well. :D
     
  20. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    so we are not the first to move obviously? who comes first, and when is our move?
    templar_x
     

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