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turns - who needs em?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by lou, Jun 18, 2007.

  1. ddog14

    ddog14 Chieftain

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    Well, I think turns are too crucial to the infrastructure of the game to get rid of them. Civilization will probably always have turns. I think the depth of planning in civilization and how much strategy is put into it would be near impossible to manage in a real time game.
     
  2. TLF

    TLF Prince

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    When Civ drops Turns, I drop Civ.
     
  3. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    Without turns, there is no civ. Eliminating turns will require complete re-building of the game called Civilization, any version of it.
     
  4. Sparta

    Sparta Emperor

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    Wow - that is without a doubt the absolute worst suggestion I have ever seen on these forums.

    Was that intentional?
     
  5. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    This was a great idea when they called it "Age of Empires". I can't even entertaint the suggestion for the removal of turns from civ. The entire series is rooted in the "turn based strategy" genre and not RTS, and for good reason. Imagine trying to plan building sites for cities, specialization of your economy, balancing your empires happiness/health, and trying to conduct a war in real time. It would not only be extraordinarily difficult to play, but also to program. Just no fun.

    A solution to the OP's plight: don't land a stack on your enemy's land without a sufficient amount of diversity to prevent immediate counter attacks. Maybe entertain the idea of promoting a platoon of troops to have the amphibious bonus and attack straight from the sea into a city and have that city be the landing point for the rest of your forces. If you have rocketry, unload those gunships first and disperse them so they are not stacked and eliminate roads/rails around your landing site.

    Changing the entire game to a RTS is not the way to solve a lack-of-planning issue.
     
  6. salaminizer

    salaminizer Colorado Internacional

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    No turns? this is MADNESS :mad:

    blitzkrieg said enough! :goodjob:
     
  7. Jerrymander

    Jerrymander Epistemologist

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    Even I thought that was harsh. :(
     
  8. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Really? I thought it hit the nail right on the head. I mean, there have been pleny of bad ideas thrown around, but this was basically "I'd rather not be playing Civ". Posted, you'll remember, on a Civ forum. Where's the sense in that?
     
  9. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Lou was just upset that he left a transport full of troops vulnerable to counterattck. So in an innocent knee-jerk kinda post he proposed eliminating the very foundation that Civ and any TBS game builds on.

    His second post hints that he's reconsidering his rash statement. :D

    Lou, it will pass. Even the best strategists make bonehead mistakes.

    Keep those turns a comin'!

    JosEPh ;)
     
  10. lou

    lou Chieftain

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    Yeah, I shot from the hip. Certainly a knee-jerk. I used to love stacks of doom in previous Civ versions, and am frustrated with the extra prep that goes into overseas invasions in Civ4 due to the stack-busting units.

    However, if planned well, there is certainly a way to remove turns and keep all of the aspects we love about the game. Yeah, I know everyone thinks it's crazy. The design challenge that fascinates me - the challenge in eliminating turns, yet keeping what we love about the game with the added pressure of time. I like the prospect of making Civ decisions under time pressure - it's more realistic (is this what the other games are like?).

    Monty is knocking at your palace door and wants a lot for peace - you'd better make a decision in 5 minutes or your king is homeless. Or, you see Bismark massing troops at the border - what do you do first; beg your powerful neighbor to declare war on him or move your units to the front line? You only have time for one before he crosses the border. I'd love that.
     
  11. PimpyMicPimp

    PimpyMicPimp Regrets His Username.

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    I think you might enjoy Empire Earth :p

    It's like a military RTS of Civ...roughly.
     
  12. realbebop

    realbebop Chieftain

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    Don't talk to an RTS fan about CIV game, it's a waste of time.
     
  13. yewsef

    yewsef Chieftain

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    If Civilization wasn't a turn based game I wouldn't have played it. Turns are essential to classic strategy games. Without turns it would be a match of who's the fastest, who's with better Micromanagement skills, who's has the fastest reflection system(old people would suck). Generally, the game will turn into a combat-fest and younger folks would be very good because it is more about micro-combat than thinking and strategy.

    There are many RTS(real time strategy) games around, try Age of Empires and WarCraft3.
     
  14. sennomulo

    sennomulo Friendly

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    This is like suggesting that we try playing chess without turns. Turns are so essential to the foundational rules of chess and Civ that removing them would require a total revamp of everything that was built on that foundation. Plus, both games are way too complicated strategy-wise for an average player to effectively handle in real time. These are games where you need time to deliberate and calculate your best move. I want my strategic and puzzle-solving skills tested, not the speed of my fingers. Honestly, how am I supposed to micromanage my capital's GPP, chop down that forest, negotiate resource trades with Spain, explore that new continent, and decide what technologies I want to research next when the Mongolians are attacking my border cities? I need to set aside a little bit of time to figure every little thing out.
     
  15. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

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    They made one called Rise of Nations. This game is too large to not have turns. Most RTS's use much smaller maps. The thing I like about civ is that I am always at a stopping point. Whenever I want to, I can just save and call it good. Even in the middle of a battle. Not that I do that alot, it is just possible. It's a good game to have on and still be able to do stuff. I like not having to be sucked into my monitor with some games. There are times I 'play' civ for 16 hours straight but only make it through about 20-40 turns in that time. Because I will watch a T.V. show and play on commercials, or play while dishes are soaking, clothes are washing, etc. Then whenever I need its always on pause for me.
     
  16. qwert

    qwert Warlord

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    Civ without turns would simply be too complicated. Imagine having to calculate what is the exact cost per minute of your army and at the same time figthing at three diferent fronts while you have to decide what to build in your capital and if you accept the cost of bribing your neighbor into the war, all this without being able to stop.

    I could recommend you to try Hearts of Iron. It is wery similar to Civ and it is RTS. I tried it, and my conclusion was that if:
    1) you set the game at a speed that you can handle, everything goes so slow that it gets boring.
    2) you set the speed so that you see thinks happening, you can direct it.
    Also in that game the interface was horrible, but maybe it is better in HoI 2.

    The other game I would recommend you is Rise of Nations, I play this one often, it is a very good RTS, and feels much like a fast game of Civ. But of course it hasn´t the deep of Civ.
     
  17. sagji

    sagji Chieftain

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    The solution to the problem is not to remove turns, but to remove the real time simulation which CIV uses to pretend to be a RTS.
    Instead of each civ moving in sequence and each unit/stack acting one at a time. Everything happens at once - so you say where the units move / attack what your cities do and when all civs have done the actions are applied.

    This makes most games faster
    Multi-player each turn takes as long as the slowest player instead of the sum of all the players.
    Single player - reduced waiting for the AI as it is working in the background while you do your turn.
    Hot seat - about the same, but with reduced waiting for the AI.
     
  18. Jerrymander

    Jerrymander Epistemologist

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    SUPREME COMMANDER.

    Problem solved. I just hope you have an nVidia GeForce 7/8 series card. :\
     
  19. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

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    Well, I haven't played Supreme Commander yet. Although I have stared at it many times in daydream. My comp can't handle that. It barely gets away with playing Civ4.
     
  20. PimpyMicPimp

    PimpyMicPimp Regrets His Username.

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    Very, very, very true. That's the problem I have with RTS', it's not so much thinking as it is racing. I was looking at Starcraft strategies when I heard about SC2, thinking I might get back into Starcraft, and I was surprised with how little actual strategie they contain. The were mostly just build orders, what to build and how fast to do it. The main idea was "build X really fast and go pwn the other guy". In a game like Starcraft, you don't even get to half of the units because the game goes by so fast.
     

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