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Twitter mob gets fantasy novel cancelled.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Mouthwash, Jan 31, 2019.

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  1. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy I swear..

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    Make sure you don't suggest gardening.

    :mischief:
    Spoiler ...? :

     
  2. metatron

    metatron deplorable ally

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    What now?

    My avatar is... probably about 20 when this picture is taken.
    At that same time Ayn Rand is pushing 40.
    On another continent.
     
  3. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Thread Killer Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Ok. Enough fighting for now. Stop attacking each other immediately or I will close the thread and begin handing out infractions.
     
  4. fishjie

    fishjie omghi2u

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    yes free speech should work in both ways. the right definitely gets upset about things as well - such as protestors peacefully kneeling for the anthem, or starbucks christmas cups. and yes, i make fun of that as well. The outrage from both left and right feature a collection of individuals devolving into a mob incapable of the ability to think critically on their own. i can come up with many instances of the internet mob outrage machine. and it is never logical. the example i keep using is this:
    many years ago, the left shut down the mozilla CEO because he donated privately to a campaign against gay marriage. yet around the same time many years ago, apple purchased beats, which was owned by dr dre. dr dre has literally physically beaten his wife and other women, and has actual misogynist rap lyrics. tim cook made a man who assaulted women vastly wealthy. but did the left care? no. they continued to purchase iphones and ipads and icloud and etc. if they were true to the ethics they claimed to espouse, they would have boycotted apple. i'm sure you could easily come up with examples of hypocrisy from the right, and then we could argue it. and that would be great.

    however, what i see from the news lately and more often, the left wants to shut down free speech more often, by labelling everything as hate speech. even comedians. you can express condemnation, but demanding people lose their jobs because their opinions upset you? who gets to decide what is worth losing a job over? you can say nazis shouldn't have jobs, and make a strong case, but what if i say communists shouldn't have jobs? my family suffered directly from communism and i am deeply offended by it. so did many in asia and south america and all over the world. if the mob can decide nazis get fired, why can't i say people who espouse marxism should also be fired?
     
  5. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Okay, stop right there. That's a myth I do not believe and will not engage with and give credence to - that is, the Neo-Manichaean socio-political paradigm that are united, lockstep, binary, black-and-white, us-and-them, siege mentality, almost hive-mind solid "left" and "right" bloc, and it's that simple. That is GARBAGE, and I will not cater to that myth and poeticized fallacy or give it any legitimacy AT ALL, despite more and more people trying to push, and actually believing, that malarkey. Sociology and politics are more complex and nuanced than, and I just have to withdraw all recognition of this argument while you view real world socio-political dynamics in a Lord of the Rings or Star Wars binary-divide light.
     
  6. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    Celibacy and chastity aren't options for the two younger ones. Both were raised as the twin sons of a duke, and of course at least the eldest would have a responsibility to marry and have heirs. While both are religious in the sense that they sincerely believe in the gods (I opted to make this a setting where the people believe in a male deity and a female deity), neither are religious to the point that they felt called to be monks or priests.

    The problem is that the eldest son turned out to be the heir to the throne (they were passed off as fraternal twins, obviously, since even though they were born on the same day, they didn't have the same parents and looked nothing alike), so he's got an even greater responsibility now to marry and father an "heir and a spare". His younger (foster) brother is now the new duke (since their father was murdered) who hadn't thought he'd need to worry as much about such things. So there they are, the two most eligible bachelors in the kingdom and since the older one's true identity was revealed, they're starting to realize some of the political reasons why their father hadn't settled on wives for them. And all of a sudden the various nobles are gladly offering their daughters, nieces, cousins, etc. as potential wives, where some hadn't been considered before.

    As for the whole attitude toward arranged marriage, I have the older one explain it to one of his female acquaintances who was miffed at having been passed over as a candidate. He tells her that the customs are often just as rigid for the men as for the women, and if his father had told him one day that "next week you are going to marry Lady ______," the only proper answer he could have made would have been, "Yes, Father."

    That's not to say that some of the people didn't have the freedom to choose if their parents allowed it. And if some of the aristocrats decided to marry without parental approval... well, that's how the whole story started. This is based on the computer game Kingmaker: Rise to the Throne, and the premise is that 31 years before the game starts, the Prince married a commoner, and of course the King wasn't happy about that. He was so displeased, in fact, that he declared a crusade on some enemy and ordered his son to lead the army. The reasoning was that the prince would forget about his commoner bride while he was away (yeah, right), and after the prince set out, the King drove his son's wife out of the castle.

    The prince was killed in battle, and the King gave into grief and depression... but not to the extent of bothering to find his daughter-in-law. What nobody knew was that she was pregnant with the prince's son, and later she died in childbirth. The infant prince was raised in secret by one of the prince's friends, whose own wife had given birth to a son on the same day. Thus the two boys were raised as twins, with only three people knowing the older boy's true identity.

    Fast-forward 30 years to the start of the game, and the two boys have grown up believing themselves to be twin brothers, both are knights who serve the King, and they're framed when someone murders the King. During the course of the game, they have to clear their names and figure out who really killed the king... and when they discover that the elder brother is really the heir to the throne who was hidden in plain sight all these years, they have to defeat their enemies and get the elder brother crowned so the political unrest doesn't descend into civil war (as can happen when aristocrats see a power vacuum).

    As with the historical example of Henry VIII, having a legitimate heir to the throne is crucial. So I need to get these guys married and fathering children. Of course it's a different situation now that they don't have to deal with parental approval, but the new king can't just marry anyone - politically the nobles wouldn't stand for yet another generation of the heir marrying a commoner. Politically he needs the support of his advisors and council members. Fortunately a suitable lady does come along for the new king, and I've decided that they'll have a mostly-happy marriage with a couple of children. I haven't decided what to do about the (foster) brother, though.

    As for the 50-year-old character, I still haven't decided why he never married. The only clue is in one of his lines of dialogue about how he knew he could never raise the prince's son, so that's why he brought the newborn baby to his friend, to raise with his own coming child. That could mean just about anything, and I'm still fleshing out this character (and surprising myself as the characters seem to decide for themselves how their lives went pre-game material and how they're going to go post-game). He could be a monk of some sort - he's a soldier and healer, and there's a scene where he wears a monk's robe. It's easy enough to give him a nephew for an heir, since I don't get the impression that he ever married.
     
  7. fishjie

    fishjie omghi2u

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    yet you jumped immediately to the conclusion that i am far right winger, because i called this group of people a mob. seems like you yourself are advocating this mutually exclusive binary either or view of the world. i said earlier in the post i am anti donald dump, and anti sjw. i hate nazis and i hate communists. people should argue it out if they disagree over something, not demand the other side be shut down, lose their job, or cancel their book.
     
  8. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    No, I said it SEEMED as though supported certain far-right views on the double standards of free speech. I made no other assumptions about anything else you may or may not believe or support, and I said it only SEEMED like you supported such views on free speech, because I only had three posts to make an estimate. I, personally, do not assume that everyone is down the line right-wing or left-wing on every issue, like is the common belief of those who commonly use the terms "left" and "right" as solid, binary, socio-political blocs - like you just did.
     
  9. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    I actually have a quite a lot of unpublished fantasy and science material, and deal with a lot of imitations of these kinds of issues in some (though not all - I use great variety, in the Ursula Le Guinn model) of the fictitious cultures I portray. I often wonder how some of these might be received in the modern day and age if I got up the discipline to actually finish something and push to get it published.
     
  10. fishjie

    fishjie omghi2u

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    • PDMA is never permissable.
    fair enough - i was warned and reported for trolling, so i had to try and be neutral as possible, hence i called both left and right out on their hypocrisy. full disclosure, but it should be obvious, i consider myself right wing, but more libertarian right wing, not neo con or christian con right wing, which are groups the current president courts, and who for the most part, gross me out. but im not a "free market solves all" libertarian, because humans are inherently wired for short term gain regardless of long term consequences, and companies driven by pure profit are going to pollute the world to death, and turn around and sell clean water and air. but i do think the government intervention for the most part causes more problems than it solves, not just in the middle east, but also domestically as well. however, to many people, my libertarian views can definitely seem far right, but when someone is on the far left, everything looks like hate speech.

    Moderator Action: The first rule of being infracted is not to get infracted. The second rule is to never talk about being infracted. ~ Arakhor
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2019 at 3:18 AM
  11. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    Camp NaNoWriMo is coming up in April, so that's a possible time to set a goal and write something. I've been working on my story steadily ever since November 1 (had a notebook full of notes before that), and if my eyesight is up for it in April I'll be participating.
     
  12. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    For lack of a better term, I call myself a "Radical Centrist," "Pragmatic Non-Partisan," or "Free-Thinking Independent," because I refuse to conform to the expectations of the current political spectrum. Also, a lot of people are fooled by a certain faux socio-political label - there is no politician, ideologue, donor, lobbyist, or pundit of any significance or note in any visible or relevant office or position in the whole U.S. who actually follows the Ministry and Message of Christ. The "Christian Conservatives," as a political label, is just chicanery.
     
  13. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    Is this an evolution or morphing of the old Ironpen thread that used to be mentioned on your avatar?
     
  14. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Chieftain

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    Fwiw I vow to never report anyone. It’s just not my style but I do take exception to giving single agency to any large groups of people. This goes for libertarians, Nazis, communists, republicans, democrats, leftists, centrists. Whoever. They all vary greatly within their constituent groups. So I generally think labeling them all is still a mistake. I do stand by that if any of them become militant enough that they do start looking like say Nazis or bolsheviks then it might demand a more stringent view. We are still avoiding that for now (although it is gettin weird these days).

    Giving single agency to large groups of people makes for setting blame on those large groups of people and I’m not ready to do that to any group yet.
     
  15. metatron

    metatron deplorable ally

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    You have still not explained your reasoning here.
    What does Ayn Rand have to do with my avatar?
    We surely can get into all manner of arguments about ethnicity here.
    But i suppose the much shorter route is for you to tell us what you meant to say.
     
  16. Patine

    Patine Warlord

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    I formally retract my belligerent challenge. I'm not outright apologizing, but I made a bold declaration that I do not wish to follow up on. I am offering to leave it at that.
     
  17. fishjie

    fishjie omghi2u

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    this is off topic, but with any religion, the corpus of text is large enough that anyone can construct a political ideology that is backed by said texts. especially with the bible, which has multiple different authors spanning multiple different generations. i'm an atheist myself, but i could construct a religious argument for why the religious right think that their interpretation is the correct one. just like i could take the stance of a liberal christian, and argue about social justice by taking quotes from the gospels and perhaps a bit from the epistle of james. and of course, any positions along the spectrum of political belief. the christian conservatives are among other things, predictable and consistent with their beliefs. even their support of dump can be explained.
     
  18. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    I still use the Iron Pen message as my usertitle, though it's been awhile since the last competition. Iron Pen is a writing competition begun by a friend of mine on an RPG forum I belonged to over 12 years ago. He ran it for awhile, but decided to step down to work on his first novel. He held a competition to see who would win the right to take over the hosting duties. I won that competition and hosted it until I left that forum. Many years later, after A&E became established here, I asked permission to run Iron Pen competitions here (stressing that it's intended to encourage people to write, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who follows through on an agreement to participate in that is to be commended - Iron Pen isn't necessarily easy sometimes, a thing I know from experience in my own long-ago days as a competitor).

    NaNoWriMo is a totally different thing. It stands for National Novel Writing Contest, and is actually open to non-Americans as well. The basic idea is to try to write a novel in 30 days (the November event specifies that it has to be at least 50,000 words long), but the Camp events are more flexible; you can choose your own word count. Your progress is tracked each day, and at the end of the month (whether April, July, or November), if you've met or exceeded the word count goal, you get a nice 'congratulations, you're a winner' message, a downloadable badge suitable to use for an avatar or sig banner (on sites that allow such banners), and a number of generous discounts on writing-related merchandise or NaNoWriMo merchandise.

    The actual quality of the writing is irrelevant. It's word count that determines the winners, and of course it's on the honor system that what you copy/paste into the validation field at the end of the month is a real story. Since you're not competing with anyone but yourself, there's really no point in cheating that I've ever fathomed.

    I have several NaNoWriMo threads in the Arts & Entertainment forum (two forums down from OT). The main reason this got started is because someone got tired of hearing people say, "I'd love to write a story/novel/play, but I just don't have the time."

    NaNoWriMo offers a number of ways to encourage people to find or make the time. The November event that requires 50,000 words in 30 days sounds like a lot, right? But it breaks down to 1667 words/day. I can do that in a couple of hours, assuming I've got an outline to work from, some notes, and a good idea where I want the story to go (sometimes the story has other ideas, which is why sometimes I've spent a couple of thousand words on somebody just buying something in the marketplace; they keep getting into conversations with people).

    Believe it or not, many of us here routinely post over 1667 word/day in various threads. Granted, it's not all part of a hopefully coherent story, but it's more than possible to write that many words (and more) per day.

    Some people start fresh novels each time; I opted to keep working on the ones I start, carrying them over for as many events as it takes to finish (I actually did finish one, a novelization of the Fighting Fantasy gamebook Caverns of the Snow Witch). As mentioned, my current project is a novelization of the computer game Kingmaker: Rise to the Throne, and it's a project I formally began on November 1 last year and I expect it to take at least another year (I've got so much original material and characters added to flesh out the story pre-game, post-game, and between-the-scenes - there are a few plot holes that need filling). So that will carry me through the April and July Camp events and November 2019. At that point it'll be time for editing, revisions, and I'll likely have changed my mind about some scenes and characters. Then, when it's finally edited to my satisfaction, it will be posted on one of the fanfic sites out there - probably Archive Of Our Own (AO3) due to some mature content which AO3 allows and fanfiction.net is iffy about.
     
  19. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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