Two bomb blasts during the Boston Marathon

[Dreadnought]

Which ones, the fake ones?

http://www.dailydot.com/society/fake-twitter-accounts-tsarnaev-dzhokhar/

No, the real ones. I didn't even know fake ones existed. I actually try to follow actual news, and not advertise fake twitter accounts. And I hold other people to that regard.

 

[Gucumatz]

The rest of the world usually puts this question as "Is it ok to torture a human being?"

As one of the Popes once said [Paraphrasing of course], if they can laugh they are human beings. If not, then do whatever the heck you want to them

Genocide in the Americas is proof that Spaniards are the worst comedians in Europe

 

[MobBoss]

And you would like us to do what exactly? Torture an American citizen? Waterboard him? Break his kneecaps? Pull out his fingernails? Starve him? Electrodes to his genitals? Beat him with sticks?

What about the use of such things as interrupted sleep cycle, sleep deprivation, and isolation? I mean come on, we arent Iran.

Ask him. Terrorists have a message, a motivation, that they want the public to hear and know. Kaczynski wrote an effing book about why he started blowing stuff up.

And when he gives us the generic 'self-perceived injustice by the USA against Muslims all over the world' reason, what then? Do we just tell ourselves 'by golly we need to just isolate ourselves and cease all of our foreign relations' in turn?

I don't think so.

Knowing their motivation isnt really going to save lives - getting them to divulge their sources, their networks, who helped them, where those people are, etc. is what will save lives - and he isnt going to just tell us that stuff 'cause we say 'please'.

 

[Kennigit]

Knowing their motivation isnt really going to save lives - getting them to divulge their sources, their networks, who helped them, where those people are, etc. is what will save lives - and he isnt going to just tell us that stuff 'cause we say 'please'.

probably the internet and friendly neighborhood store for this bomb size

 

[MobBoss]

probably the internet and friendly neighborhood store for this bomb size

I'm willing to bet the older brother got training in how to make them when he was over in Chechnya not long ago. Similar pressure cooker bombs have been used in Afghanistan and Iraq before.

 

[Zelig]

Honestly, what does it matter what their motivations were? They murdered people. Try them, execute them (I am assuming a guilty verdict.)

Because intent matters in determining culpability for crimes.

He wasn't a small child. He knew right from wrong and chose wrong. He is totally responsible for his own actions. If my brother tried to get me to do something like this with him, I'd turn him over to the authorities.

So if I get people do Bad Things, as long as they know right from wrong, I bear no responsibility for their actions?

Plus, if he's in prison, there's a decent amount of time available to interview him. There's no need to get out the pliars and blowtorch asap.

Yeah, but there's no downside to the pliars and blowtorch, and he deserves it.

 

[bhsup]

So if I get people do Bad Things, as long as they know right from wrong, I bear no responsibility for their actions?

You're involved in a conspiracy to commit the crime of course. In fact, I might even say you're the ringleader. That does not in any way lessen their own responsibility for their own actions.

 

[Zelig]

You're involved in a conspiracy to commit the crime of course. In fact, I might even say you're the ringleader. That does not in any way lessen their own responsibility for their own actions.

Okay, but if I have more than 0% responsibility for their actions, it's mathematically impossible for them to have 100% responsibility for their actions.

 

[MobBoss]

Okay, but if I have more than 0% responsibility for their actions, it's mathematically impossible for them to have 100% responsibility for their actions.

Rofl, no. They still have 100% responsibility; you're just indicating that you have some influence on their choice. There is a difference between influence and responsibility.

 

[Zelig]

Rofl, no. They still have 100% responsibility; you're just indicating that you have some influence on their choice. There is a difference between influence and responsibility.

I at no point said they didn't have 100% responsibility.

If person A is responsible for X% of action Z, person B is at most responsible for 100%-X of action Z.

 

[ace99]

I'm not sure if conspiracy is a lesser offense. I think its one of those inchoate crimes that are a lot like felony murder.

 

[Camikaze]

I at no point said they didn't have 100% responsibility.

If person A is responsible for X% of action Z, person B is at most responsible for 100%-X of action Z.

Well, two people can each be 100% liable for something at law. Law doesn't require the sum of responsibilities to equal 100%.

But I don't think it's about diminished responsibility, so much as it's about factors relevant to intent and mitigation of sentence. If he was under the influence of his terrorist mastermind brother, that indicates that he isn't as much of an evil animal (a dangerous way to look at it in the first place) as him actually being that terrorist mastermind would.

The argument that a certain punishment would be deserved regardless is not an argument that a particular mitigating factor is not relevant.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I'm not sure if conspiracy is a lesser offense. I think its one of those inchoate crimes that are a lot like felony murder.

Felony murder ugh

I like the 650 lifer law myself. One strike your out/life in prison for drug possession is where justice happens mmm.


Also, Glenn Beck is going to reveal the conspiracy in like 12 hours from now on Monday.
That a Saudi was somehow involved in the Boston Bombing I think.


Link to video.

 

[luiz]

Are you willing to appreciate that there might be some nuance involved, or is "there was a bomb" the beginning and end of the story for you?

No, the beginning and end of the story is that he dropped this bomb on a place of his choosing, knowing full well he would kill children and women and permanently injure many others. He is particularly evil even among terrorists, who usually choose a physical target and consider civilian deaths an acceptable collateral damage, like McVeigh did. He only targeted people, and particularly innocent and vulnerable people at that.

There is no nuance for those who lost a loved one, or their legs. Can you appreciate that?

 

[Camikaze]

Which is precisely why the judge and jury are not family members of the victims?

 

[luiz]

Which is precisely why the judge and jury are not family members of the victims?

But they have a duty of applying justice in the name of those who can't defend themselves. Justice, in this case, is putting the beast down. The only advantage of keeping him alive a little longer is trying to gather some intel, which I doubt he will provide since he and his brother probably worked alone. So he is just wasting American resources.

 

[El_Machinae]

Yeah, the death penalty process is slow enough such that all the psychological gleanings will have plenty of time. It's a death penalty case if there ever was one.

*insert similar caveats as luiz did, upthread.

 

[Azale]

Also, Glenn Beck is going to reveal the conspiracy in like 12 hours from now on Monday.
That a Saudi was somehow involved in the Boston Bombing I think.


Link to video.

Breitbart esque meltdown incoming. I can't wait.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I mean, dropping a freakin' nail bomb next to a bunch of kids and their moms is not the behavior of a human being.

I see you are new to this planet. I recommend being very careful around these things called "humans."

 

[classical_hero]

Well if less than 50% of the population don't do that action, then he is correct in what he said.