It's only cos they learned it from the Romaioi.I'd just like to throw a cat amongst the pigoeons here and say I think Russia makes the best warboats
It's only cos they learned it from the Romaioi.I'd just like to throw a cat amongst the pigoeons here and say I think Russia makes the best warboats
You may not like how he states it, but his opinion on modern naval surface combat and platforms is worth more and better informed than anyone else's here, including mine, and I'm a former surface line officer with a hobbyist interest in the subject myself.
Is that why my name keeps appearing in their responses? Because they are ignoring me?
The short answer is that surface threats are few and far between at the moment, with the exception of small boats which Harpoons won't help you with. The Harpoon, despite its age, is still more than capable agains most warships in the world, and to be honest carrier aircraft would destory any opponents surface fleet anyway.
The focus for a long time has been AAW (including anti missile) and USW which are really the only way any nation could hope to survive long enough to inflict any damage on the US at all. There are two reasons for this. One is the very unpredictable and to be honest luck based aspects of USW, and the other is the quick and violent nature of air warfare.
SUW is very much a set piece chess match affair. It has its unique challenges, but ships move relatively slow and it is a 2D easily understood setup where there is time to array your forces and think things through. Contrast that to AAW, where attacks come and go within minutes, or USW where thermal layers and whatnot make detection of submarines (and surface ships by submarines) very tricky not to mention you have no communications with your own submarines who are protecting you. In AAW or USW it is very easy for a single mistake to totally change the game.
Thats why so much effort was put into Aegis/SPY/SM2, in order to push out the engagement zone of air warfare and better manage the chaos in order to give people the time to make decisions and counter saturation attacks (and if need be punch out and let Aegis take it). In the case of ASW, the answere was the Seawolf and later Virginia class submarines as well as a whole host of other ASW weapons/countermeasures like NIXIE/PRARIE/MASKER/TACTAS/etc. Having played with the subs of several nations (both diesel and nuclear) the weakness of submarines is their torpedoes, they are realtively easly to evade with modern countermeasures.
So thats why there isn't any harpoon upgrade, becasuet he other warfare areas are far more important as nations simply realize the futility of competing in the surface arena.
As to newer supersonic missiles, the newer block Phalanx can take out most of them, but the real revolution is in RAM and ESSM, both of which are capable of taking out missiles like the Sunburn and are mounted on all our and many of NATO's newest classes. There are a whole host of countermeasures like Nulka that are very effective.
There is a differnece between focused and soley capable.
How do you think a UFC fighter who can only kick but not jab or block would do in the ring?
The comparison is still not on the Daring's side, as a Burkes primary mission (amongst many) is AAW. Besides, destroyers are by definition supposed to be a jack of all trades, master of none.
So reclassify them as frigates
There is a differnece between focused and soley capable.
How do you think a UFC fighter who can only kick but not jab or block would do in the ring?
The comparison is still not on the Daring's side, as a Burkes primary mission (amongst many) is AAW. Besides, destroyers are by definition supposed to be a jack of all trades, master of none.
pat said:So thats why there isn't any harpoon upgrade, becasuet he other warfare areas are far more important as nations simply realize the futility of competing in the surface arena.
From what I am reading, the type-45's radar has twice the range of the Arleigh Burke/Ticonderoga's (400km v 190km), the missiles are far newer and are specifically designed for close-range work - which is why no CIWS has been fitted...the ships even have a lower radar cross-section...In any case, an Arleigh Burke totally owns it in AAW anyway.
I merely pointed out that his knowledge base was quite limited. Once again, simply reading Jane's doesn't make you an expert in this field because most of the relevant data is classified. As such, Jane's does not have access to it nor does he.Patroklos, I reckon Formaldehyde knows more on this than you do. He's countered every post you've written.
While Patroklos is certainly entitled to his opinion on which ship is better, it is only just one more opinion based on incomplete information.
No, I didn't know he was a US Navy surface warfare officer. In fact, I asked specifically if he had access to the classified information on any of the vessels. If he actually served on an AAW platform mentioned, then he likely does or did have access to that data.
But the point still stands. Since he likely doesn't have access to British classifiied information, he is still working from an incomplete knowledge base. OTOH the people who claim that the British ship is indeed superior apparently do have access to all the classified information on both sides. So it's really their experts against him. I'd pick them for the same reasons you just mentioned.
And once again, I'd like to remind everybody that I have not ventured an opinion of which ship is 'best'. I am merely reminding everybody of the facts, as opposed to the opinions.
No, I didn't know he was a US Navy surface warfare officer. In fact, I asked specifically if he had access to the classified information on any of the vessels. If he actually served on an AAW platform mentioned, then he likely does or did have access to that data.
But the point still stands. Since he likely doesn't have access to British classifiied information, he is still working from an incomplete knowledge base. OTOH the people who claim that the British ship is indeed superior apparently do have access to all the classified information on both sides. So it's really their experts against him. I'd pick them for the same reasons you just mentioned.
And once again, I'd like to remind everybody that I have not ventured an opinion of which ship is 'best'. I am merely reminding everybody of the facts, as opposed to the opinions.