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UHV brainstorming

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall: Europe' started by merijn_v1, May 1, 2015.

  1. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    I would like to change some of the UHV. Many civs have 1 UHV which says control X provinces by Y another one which say control a bit more provinces in Z. I would like to combine those, so we have more diversity in the UHV. (Not all of them need to be combined.)

    Combine Arabia 1 and 2
    Combine Aragon 1 and 3
    Combine Denmark 1 and 2
    Combine Germany 1 and 3
    Combine Ottoman 1 and 2


    I would also like to expand some UHV. Some can be a little more challenging.

    Change the 1st Polish UHV to: Produce the most food for at least 25 turns between 1500 and 1600 AD. (50 turns in total). We could expand this with a minimum average food production that century.

    Hungarian 2: Current UHV + strongest army

    Lithuania 3: Current UHV + conquer of vassalize Novgorod. This is not completely historical, but only requiring to conquer or vassalize Moscow seems "incomplete" to me. (NOTE: I haven't played Lithuania for a while. It could be very hard already)

    Scotland 2: I think this UHV is too much dependent on France. We could expand the alliance with Burgundy. Although this is not historical, it reduces the dependency on France.


    Any ideas, comments, thoughts for new UHV?
     
  2. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    I can tell you already, that german 1+3 can be done aproximatly by 1200 AD or so. Also that noth italy isnt in the third is historical but pointless, you wont loose those cities anyway!
    bigest territory+bigest army sounds good, but build a lots of unit just to be the biggest...also dissapointing and in case of hungary: very ahistorical too.

    Ottomans 1+2 seems good idea but they need a major fix also. new uhv cold be cultural or buildings like have 20 hammam at xxxx.
     
  3. Rafaelito

    Rafaelito Chieftain

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    Byzantium 3rd UHV:

    Current one is total crappy... need 2 turns to achieve the highest gold or just steal the pope.

    Suggestion: Make sure that there are more orthodox population in the world than Catholics.
    2nd Suggestion: Control ALL the mediterraneam provinces....
    3rd Suggestion: Have at least 3 vassals and ensure they are orthodox nations....

    the first UHV is not that hard as well...

    You have to do absolutely NOTHING to make constantinople the highest population and culture...
    How about make ROME more cultural city or france AI more likely to spam great artist?
     
  4. Swarbs

    Swarbs Emperor

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    My views on those five are:

    Arabia:
    UHV1: The House of Islam. Capture Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, Jerusalem, Antiochia, Egypt, Tripolitania, Algiers, Ifriquya, Cyrenacia and Oran by 955AD
    UHV2: The New Caliphate Conquer or vassalise the Cordobans, Morrocans and Ottomans and control or vassalise Andalusia, Morocco and Constantinople by 1453AD
    UHV3: The World of Islam Spread Islam to at least 35% of the population of Europe

    In general Arabia should get more starting units, to reflect the massive armies with which they expanded so rapidly. That makes UHV1 possible. UHV2 is then to unite Islam under one banner, essentially forming a new and expanded Umayyad Caliphate

    Aragon:
    UHV1: Thassalocracy
    UHV2: Realms of the Crown
    UHV3: War of the Spanish Succession
    Control all of Iberia except Lusitania by 1714AD (And build at least X colonial projects?)

    First two UHVs are the same as the current UHV2 and UHV3. The final UHV is the alternate history one, whereby Aragon controls Spain itself rather than through the union with Castile and Leon. Could also possibly add a requirement to build some colonies into the final UHV to make it a bit more than just conquest.

    Denmark:
    I would keep these the same as they are - UHV 1 and 2 are far enough apart, and largely relate to different territories and different empires. It would be a bit ahistorical to have Denmark controlling England in 1523, and the first UHV makes good use of the Huskarl

    Germany:
    UHV1: The Holy Roman Empire Control Lorraine, Swabia, Saxony, Bavaria, Franconia, Brandenbury, Holstein, Lombardy, Tuscany, Flanders, Pomerania, Sliesia, Bohemia, Moravia and Austria in 1190AD
    UHV2: The Reformation
    UHV3: Institutions of the Empire
    Build the Imperial Diet, Stephansdom, and have Ausburg Families and the Hanseatic League in at least one of your cities by 1250AD (date tbc)

    Basically makes the Germans the classic balance of conquest, technology and construction. Focus too much on military and you won't get Protestantism or be able to build the wonders, but you still need a sufficiently large army to conquer the HRE. UHV3 would need testing and would depend on the new corporation mechanics to be feasible

    Ottomans:
    UHV1: Osman's Empire Combined UHV1 and UHV2 by 1517AD
    UHV2: Victory over Europe Conquer Austria by 1683AD
    UHV3: Ottoman Glory Have the largest and most powerful military in Europe in 1800AD

    Pretty simple - only problem is that UHV3 may be very easy or very hard depending on whether other civs have emerged with dominant positions and SODs.
     
  5. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    @swarbs

    your ottoman 3 is no problem if they could made the first. also germans 3 is interesting, the date could be late, or hey won the game by founding reformation?
    arab 1-2-3 seems good.
    aragon is good as its now imo, no need to change.
     
  6. Swarbs

    Swarbs Emperor

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    True. Perhaps a better one would be:

    UHV3: Domination over Europe Ensure your military is twice as large and powerful as any other civ in 1800AD

    It could be fine tuned, but the general idea would be to mimic how the Ottomans spent the last couple of centuries of their rule basically building a massive military and neglecting civil development. The challenge for the player would be to achieve a massive military whilst not neglecting development else they would be DOWed by technologically superior rivals.

    I dunno - the first UHV for Aragon is very easy. You get Catalonia on spawn, have no rivals for Sicily or the Baleares, and can easily capture Valencia by waiting until Spain DOWs on Cordoba. Not really any sort of challenge imo, and no real need for it given that those territories are also included in UHV3
     
  7. saddam_who_sane

    saddam_who_sane Chieftain

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    I agree it could be more challenging to set a new Arabian goal associated with techs and wonders and merge UHV1 and UHV2 or simply get rid of UHV1, it's too boring, imho. Maybe it should be sound like "complete all islamic wonders by 1??? and be the most advanced civ in 1095"
    Long time ago I read about Siberian colonial projects suggestions. Maybe implementation of this thing would not worth it, but Muscovian, Novgorodian and Ottoman goals seem to be incomplete without these projects.
    For example: Ottoman UHV2 "Domination in Europe and Asia": Conquer Austria and complete Siberian projects by 1683"
     
  8. ales_

    ales_ Heir

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    It's ABSOLUTELY ahistorical and makes no sense for Ottomans to require Siberia.
     
  9. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    Ottomans where still big in 1800 but outdated, true, they posed a realy threat to all south europe even to morocco and spain. so i would say have 250 land military unit ready by 1700 sounds better to me. this way you are not tight to other civs. you can add some naval to this too. like +50 ships.
    another idea to ask them to control insane amount of land, as they did in RL.

    i barley know anything about aragon to add any details to their uhv.

    ps: numbers are a guess only.
     
  10. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    I don't want to combine UHVs just for the sake of combining them because they have similar goals.
    Of course we can combine some of those, but only if there is a real good idea for the new UHV.
    I mean, the idea for a good new UHV should be the main reason for the change.

    Also, all UHVs should represent the given civs goals (either successful or planned/desired/hoped).
    So Ottoman conquest of Siberia and stuff is absolutely out of the question.
     
  11. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    I never said every similar UHV must be combined. This list on the OP was only to show which one could be combined, if a nice replacement is found.
    That's also the main reason why I started this thread, to get ideas for some new UHV, instead of just conquer and conquer more.

    I do however think that the Arabian UHV should be combined. There are so many things of Islam/Arabia that could be represented with UHV. But we only have conquer, conquer more and spread. They should really get some diversity.
     
  12. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Agreed. Arabia needs some improvements
    Also the Byzantine UHVs
     
  13. 2phunkey4u

    2phunkey4u West-Eastern Divan

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    Here's one for Arabia:
    "The Golden Age of Islam": Be the 1st in score (or just tech and culture) in 1250AD (when the Islamic Golden Age ended with the Mongols' sack of Baghdad)
     
  14. saddam_who_sane

    saddam_who_sane Chieftain

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  15. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    Arabia was actually the main reason starting this thread. The other ones are more like "if we could fine something good, than..."
     
  16. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    The way I see it, this only means Crimea could potentially get a goal somehow connected to Siberia
    Even a stretch for them, but might work there with a good implementation
    Still a definite no for the Ottomans
     
  17. Swarbs

    Swarbs Emperor

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    I would like to see the third goals for Arabia and Byzantium be linked to some form of religious dominance as the goals they failed to achieve. Like I suggested above, Arabia's goal should be dominance over all Islamic civs and the entire Islamic world, as that was ultimately the stated aim of every Arabic Caliphate:

    The New Caliphate Conquer or vassalise the Cordobans, Morrocans and Ottomans and control or vassalise Andalusia, Morocco and Constantinople by 1453AD

    Similar for Byzantium, a major goal of their empire was to make Orthodoxy dominate over Catholicism. I would suggest the Byzantine goals should be:

    UHV1: The Second Rome Make Constantinople the largest and most cultured city in the world in 1025AD
    UHV2: Reclaiming the Empire Capture or vassalise the territories of Justinian's Empire by 1300AD
    UHV3: Primus Inter Pares Ensure that the Orthodox nations have more land and people than any other religion in 1450AD

    UHV1 is the same as the current one, although I think Rome should be given higher starting culture, or a higher rate of culture accumulation, so that Byzantium has to use a Great Artist to be sure of winning that one. It's too easy atm.

    UHV2 is definitely doable - I have completed it before during normal play. Essentially you need the territories of the current UHV1, all Mediterranean islands, Dalmatia, Moesia, the Levant, Africa and Andalusia.

    UHV3 is the corollary of the Spanish one, and relates to the long term aim of the Roman Emperors to establish Orthodoxy as the dominant religion, and particularly to have dominance over the Catholics.
     
  18. Rafaelito

    Rafaelito Chieftain

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    I agree with Swarbs, the UHV 1 it´s very easy once you have no direct opponent, neither in culture or population to claim this title from Constantinople.

    The UHV 2 would be nice to reclaim the justinian empire

    the most important change would be UHV 3: we need a true challenge, expand the orthodox faith would be nice
     
  19. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    i have a game with byz right now, ill se how is it possible or close, imo the date is too early....russia need more time to give some balance, also in 1450 there is no protestantism...
     
  20. ales_

    ales_ Heir

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    2 ahistorical goals.
     

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