Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by ParadigmShifter, May 6, 2010.
I'm already here, look out onto the back lawn
EDIT: I'll accept a pic instead, something along these lines
Er... you know, the back lawn, the concrete bit outside your front door
Can't see your face there. It would also be helpful if someone was holding one of today's newspapers up as well.
EDIT: And how long have you been a "Breakdancing extra-terrestrial pirate" at Walt Disney World?
I took a close-up of RRW and his missus breakdancing just now:
The Lib Dems should let the Tories govern in exchange for electoral reform. The details can be arranged but the broad outline is very clear.
All seats declared now (1 postponed for 3 weeks, so 649 seats).
CON 306 +97
LAB 258 -91
LD 57 -5
SNP 6 +0
PC 3 +1
Other 19 -2
Hung Parliament, Conservatives 19 short of a majority.
The Lib Dems have control. Now is the time. Prop Rep or death.
Can't see the Tories going for it. They've offered an all party commission to look into it. They got burned by Blair in '97 when Lord Jenkins did a report and recommended AV+. Nothing came of it.
AT least Labour has a referendum and "immediate reform" on the table. They'll get panned by the Tory press though.
I think the best thing the Lib Dems could do, is to say to the Conservatives that we will abstain on your Queen's Speech and your Emergency Budget as long as there is nothing extremely against the Lib Dem's best interests in them but everything after that will be taken on a Case by case basis.
Getting into bed with the Tory's will harm the Lib Dem's long term just as much as propping up Labour would harm them long term.
It is now or never. Who the hell cares if a few ineffectual faux-centrist toffs run the UK for a few years? The trade off is THEY MAY NEVER FORM A MAJORITY AGAIN.
Tories don't offer PR, LD don't prop them up and just take each issue as it comes.
Basically, LD cancels out the Tory vote. Popular? No, but the Tories can't really win without givin in on PR, so...
Range voting is not a good idea for parliamentary elections. As with rating items on websites, it will devolve into two-level voting for most people in order to keep other candidate's averages low, whilst leading some people to give realistic ratings and taking more time to count.
STV is far more preferable, but PR even more so.
THE LIB DEMS WILL NEVER HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY AGAIN
Time to make having a vote actually mean something in the Uk.
So much suspense.
Not really. Tories are ruthless in pursuit of power.
They will fob off Clegg with some meaningless PR formula that can be abandoned later, and will dare him to bring down the country's currency and credit rating by not backing them.
They will then proceed to blame him for any consequences.
The Conservatives want to make each constituency the same size, which either means splitting their big rural seats or combining labour's smaller urban seats. Either way they're just rigging it for themselves.
How do you avoid tactical voting under a range system? That is to say, people voting 'ten' for their first choice party and 'zero' for all the rest, in order to exaggerate the vote of their first choice.
Interestingly, STV is the reform that the Lib Dems support (going by manifesto pledges). What kind of PR are you advocating?
Never is a strong word. In reality this is probably the best chance to push through voting reform in eighty years, but British political realities have changed since then. In the 50's Labour and the Conservatives commanded 97% of the popular vote, today they command barely 65%. The story has been one of a quickening decline of the two parties, and this election doesn't buck the trend.
Then there's the debates. As has been noted the presence of a Lib Dem candidate there puts the party automatically on par with Labour and The Conservatives; it makes British politics a more transparently three party affair. That's not going to change, and the debates are going to become part of the political landscape.
Mainly, my point is that the case for PR is stronger now then ever before; The Lib Dems will almost certainly get this opportunity again. Just no one knows when.
That's not to say they shouldn't absolutely demand electoral reform as part of any coalition; they should and I think Clegg knows this.
Separate names with a comma.