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UK politics - continuing into 2021

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by EnglishEdward, Jan 5, 2021.

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  1. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    I am not sure. If LibDems keep quiet on Europe, they might significantly erode the conservative majority.
     
  2. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    up yours.
    A secretary for Northern Ireland called ‘Brokenshire’. That one is really coincidental.


    Or is it? :shifty:
     
  3. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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  4. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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  5. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    That seems like a case of politicians engaging mouth before brain - situation normal.
     
  6. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Minimum unit pricing of alcohol (MUP) in Scotland has no effect on crime.

    The answer according to the pro MUP folks? Increase the price, and described the findings as "disappointing"!! Yeah, that is the way to do policy, act on your feelings and if data show the opposite it is the data's fault.

    I think the whole idea is mad and must be a cash cow for the manufacturers of cheap booze. It is not like they are going to double their costs if the price to the customer doubles, they will just take it as extra profit, along with the shops. This way of trying to change peoples behaviour by making it more expensive to enjoy a drink seems to me to mostly hurt the poor, while having little effect on anyone else. If my beer cost twice as much I am well enough off to still drink, some poor people will forgo the little luxury of a beer in the evening, others will cut out other things to compensate. Who is being helped by this? At least if they did it with tax it could do some good otherwise, this way the difference between production cost and value to the consumer is totally captured by the industry.

    The introduction of minimum unit pricing of alcohol in Scotland had a minimal impact on drink-related crime, a new study suggests.
    Research from Manchester Metropolitan University analysed Police Scotland data to understand how MUP, introduced in May 2018, affected various crimes.
    It found no significant statistical changes in alcohol-related crime, disorder and public nuisance offences.

    Alison Douglas, chief executive of Alcohol Focus Scotland, described the findings as "disappointing" given the reduction in off-sales consumption and said early indications were that MUP had "saved lives".
    Ms Douglas reiterated previous calls for the Scottish government to increase the unit minimum price, initially set in 2012 before a lengthy legal challenge delayed its introduction, to "at least 65p per unit".
    Report Beeb
     
  7. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    Perhaps making beer too expensive merely encourages a switch to alternative competitive mood changing substances such as cocaine, heroin.

    The testing ground demonstrating value for money again.
     
  8. PhroX

    PhroX Deity

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    It isn't something I've paid that much attention to, but I had assumed the minimum price increase was primarily for health reasons, so I would be interested in seeing follow ups to the "early indications" of saving lives before writing the policy off, even if it hasn't impacted crime.
     
  9. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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  10. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    The report says:

    “Drug-related crime appears to have been similarly unaffected, with no increase seen around the introduction of MUP.​

    The hopefully is doing a lot of work there. If I could not afford to drink as much as I do I would see that as a distinct negative, and would not like it justified by someones hope that it is good for me. It would probably result in me cutting down on healthy food before reducing my alcohol intake.

    Also that paper does not separate out the purchases that were over the MUP before the rule came in. It says "Before the introduction of MUP in Scotland ... the price per gram purchased was 9·71p. The equivalent data for Wales ... 10·25 p per gram". With a MUP of 6.25 a lot was above that before, and there is no attempt to separate out the populations. That seems very weak evidence to base such a regressive pricing scheme upon.

    Spoiler What is going on with that paper :
    Median income in the UK is £31,461. ~20% of the sample is in "class AB" (Supp Fig 2), which means Upper/Middle middle class. Less than 20% of the sample earns more than £25k. How does that work?


    Spoiler Even more of a rant :
    Seriously, for a paper in the lancet they just badly overwrote the axis labels from day number (with a decimal point) to year and hoped no one would notice or something?

     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  11. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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  12. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    That idiot MP is quoted in the Guardian as saying that they're both close friends, which makes his alleged statement all the more ridiculous.
     
  13. sherbz

    sherbz Deity

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    James Gray? He used to be my MP when i lived in North Wiltshire. He has been the MP for donkeys years. There has been more than a sniff of a possibility of the Lib Dems taking the seat in the past. Its a good example of a seat where Labour has no chance of winning. But they consistently get 3 or 4 thousand votes. And if those votes would go to the Liberals instead they might unseat the Tories. Its constituencies like that where Labour ought to get off its high horse and work with other progressive parties IMO. And then CHANGE THE VOTING SYSTEM
     
  14. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    You don't need to tell me twice. FPTP is not fit for purpose.
     
    sherbz likes this.
  15. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    I mean, I wouldn't call the Lib Dems progressives per se, but I'm definitely on board with both tactical voting and death to FTFP.
     
  16. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    The fact that there may not have been an immediate impact does not mean that there was not a delayed impact.
     
  17. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    The same is true of alcohol-related crime. Just because minimum pricing hasn't had an instantaneous effect doesn't mean it won't have an effect.
     
  18. sherbz

    sherbz Deity

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    I dont think any one party can truly claim to be composed entirely of "progressives". And some people who claim they are progressive are deluding themselves.
     
  19. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    That may well be true.

    I am actually quite undecided on this point.

    I await to see the evidence from the testing ground.
     
  20. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    While the poor in the testing ground pay twice what I do for booze.
     
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