UK Politics VI - Will Britain Steir to Karmer Waters?

[EnglishEdward]

Once again I am surprised that an Estonian cannot understand the need for a principle of reciprocation and equal treatment between parties as necessary for collective action/defense.

Which "parties" are you talking about ?

 

[Senethro]

Which "parties" are you talking about ?

All native identities.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Well in southern Britain that would be English and Welsh,
and I understand there is reciprocal and equal treatment.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Well in southern Britain that would be English and Welsh,
and I understand there is reciprocal and equal treatment.

Don't forget those pesky Cornish.

 

[Theov]

You're really going to sit there and tell me that other religions do not encourage violence or intolerance? Lmao.

not to the degree islam does - and some religions not at all.

If you really have this fantasy that islam is 'just like the other religions' and 'it's a socioeconomic thing', I just hope you one day wake up from that dream.

 

[Yeekim]

Once again I am surprised that an Estonian cannot understand the need for a principle of reciprocation and equal treatment between parties as necessary for collective action/defense.

This is a complete non-sequitur.
1) We're not discussing collective defense.
2) Reciprocation and equal treatment are paramount in both international relations and for fair society to function. You, however, are talking about something else entirely.

In context of immigration, "reciprocation and equal treatment" would mean that if Elbonians can freely move to Panchovia, then Panchovians should be free to move to Elbonia. And that both Elbonian minorities in Panchovia and Panchovian minorities in Elbonia should enjoy similar rights and protections.

 

[Lexicus]

It's inevitable. Where two incompatible cultures clash, they will have to merge (unlikely) or one will disappear.

This is Nazism

 

[Senethro]

This is a complete non-sequitur.
1) We're not discussing collective defense.
2) Reciprocation and equal treatment are paramount in both international relations and for fair society to function. You, however, are talking about something else entirely.

In context of immigration, "reciprocation and equal treatment" would mean that if Elbonians can freely move to Panchovia, then Panchovians should be free to move to Elbonia. And that both Elbonian minorities in Panchovia and Panchovian minorities in Elbonia should enjoy similar rights and protections.

If nativity is important, it must be all native identities. No primacy.

If identity is valuable, it must be all identities. No primacy.

And if you accept primacy in both categories, then you're discarding the possibility of cooperative reciprocation. You're pretty much announcing that whatever cultural aggression can be gotten away with is acceptable. This requires you to enforce compliance, which is a poor way to make friends or gain consent.

Come on, this is basic Silver Rule stuff.

 

[danjuno]

not to the degree islam does - and some religions not at all.

If you really have this fantasy that islam is 'just like the other religions' and 'it's a socioeconomic thing', I just hope you one day wake up from that dream.

Like I said before, do you really expect people to believe that would still be the case if the Muslim world were wealthiest and most stable region in the world?

It has been the broad expert consensus for a while now that poverty increases the likelyhood of crime. Do you really expect people to believe you, a random stranger on the internet, over them?

 

[Akka]

And this is relevant to the question asked how, exactly ?
I mean, you were the one acting all angry about how I should read first, but that's twice in a row you've actually not read the question asked. It starts to feel pretty deliberate.

 

[Senethro]

And this is relevant to the question asked how, exactly ?
I mean, you were the one acting all angry about how I should read first, but that's twice in a row you've actually not read the question asked. It starts to feel pretty deliberate.

and

That being said, you should maybe check a bit the stats about terrorism and religious laws in today's world. Might be enlightening.

In the second quoted post here you're claiming to have actual knowledge about this subject..

It would be easier to show that Danjuno is wrong and you're correct by showing your knowledge/evidence, instead of your extremely self-indulgent condescension routine.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

not to the degree islam does - and some religions not at all.

If you really have this fantasy that islam is 'just like the other religions' and 'it's a socioeconomic thing', I just hope you one day wake up from that dream.

The destruction of all US foreign aid has lead to 550,000 deaths already. Dozens have been extrajudicially killed in international waters. A genocide is being committed in Gaza. Tell me; are America and Israel Sunni or Shia? So I can pick a side at least.

 

[danjuno]

And this is relevant to the question asked how, exactly ?
I mean, you were the one acting all angry about how I should read first, but that's twice in a row you've actually not read the question asked. It starts to feel pretty deliberate.

You asked me to compare violence in Muslim and Non-Muslim countries, I found a map of homicide rates, which is the closest I could fine on short notice.

Since you asked for clarification, I was also able to find a map that more specifically asks about terrorism:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/terrorism-statistics-by-country

But it still shows the wealthiest Muslim states (Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Microstates) as having similar or lower rates to Western Europe.

 

[Lexicus]

America and its allies and clients are the biggests terrorists in the world, and it isn't close.

 

[soundjata]

1. Erosion of the smaller is both negative and inevitable (or close to it).
2. Minority identities can be protected or persecuted, but even in the best conditions they tend to dwindle in the long run.
All the more reason to avoid becoming that minority yourself, no?

3. Because for majority - for people who are members of the largest identity - they are the only ones who are actually a threat.

And protecting smaller native identities provides no guarantee the current majority would receive the same level of protection from the next one . Also, see p 2.

Thanks for the honest testimony.

I understand you believe you belong to a group (you are a member of a group yay!)
I understand the group you belong to is the majority and that makes you comfortable or relieved (because if you belonged to the minority that would suck wouldn't it?)

So now please tell me what is that group, and what is the benefit of that group existing, apart from giving you a sense of security and focus your ostracism on another group?

I believe nations are fake categories to keep the mass obedient. (abide by "the group rules" or be punished lol)
I don't want to belong to any nation because I hate being the tool of others interests.
I will judge humans based on their behavior, not their flag, or their religious token of preference.

Anti-immigration policies are the continuation of the ancestral "divide and conquer" ruling tactic, which works because humans are gullible children.

Story for children:

Spoiler :

Come here Yeekim, my beloved child
Have this delicious apple. Just grab it from my hand
I will not give this delicious apple to your brother. Because he is bad, bad brother
...
No go do your chores!

 

[Akka]

You asked me to compare violence in Muslim and Non-Muslim countries

No.
For someone who acted all angry about not being read, you definitely put a lot of efforts in not reading.

Since you asked for clarification, I was also able to find a map that more specifically asks about terrorism:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/terrorism-statistics-by-country

That shows terrorism attacks. It doesn't give any statistic on who makes those attacks and the reason they do. Which is kinda the entire point of half the initial question (the other being about religious law, that you haven't even started to answer).

 

[Ordnael]

I believe nations are fake categories to keep the mass obedient.

Fortunately for me and like minded people (the overwhelming majority of voters) this kind of esoteric reasoning is being voted out of EU parliaments everywhere.
The left is losing common ground with the people. Good riddance!

 

[soundjata]

Fortunately for me and like minded people (the overwhelming majority of voters) this kind of esoteric reasoning is being voted out of EU parliaments everywhere.
The left is losing common ground with the people. Good riddance!

This is an understandable opinion. From a position of fear (for change) I presume.

 

[Ordnael]

This is an understandable opinion. From a position of fear (for change) I presume.

Fear didn't come to mind when I reflected on your reasoning, I did felt perplexed and mindboggled though.

 

[Akka]

I believe nations are fake categories to keep the mass obedient. (abide by "the group rules" or be punished lol)

That's just ideological wishful thinking.
Humans are a social species, we gravitates toward groups of people we can feel some sort of kinship of - which means strong bonds with family and friends, and progressively weaker bonds the larger and less personal the group becomes.
Nations are just the end point of this mechanism. They are as fake as customs or culture, which is to say not a lot.