Cloud_Strife
Deity
Don't care, go ask someone else bad faith questions
UK Politics VI - Will Britain Steir to Karmer Waters?
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Ordnael
Emperor
Edward woke up today and chose violence...this is not an apt place for that Ed!
Tbh, I don't really see cherubs around ^^
It's no secret that I have an absolutely negative view of Starmer. Yet he did express his anti-trans sentiments already and put them front and center - and did that very glaringly because he expected this to help him win the election.
If his voters - who are torys that just don't like the term tory - were against this, he wouldn't even have the 33% he got.
It's no secret that I have an absolutely negative view of Starmer. Yet he did express his anti-trans sentiments already and put them front and center - and did that very glaringly because he expected this to help him win the election.
If his voters - who are torys that just don't like the term tory - were against this, he wouldn't even have the 33% he got.
Lexicus
Deity
"Transtopia" and it's just trans people living their lives without fear of imminent deadly violence from bigots and/or the state
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Ed doesn't get how insanely hostile this country is to trans people
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
Starmer does not believe trans women are women, No 10 says
Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer does not believe transgender women are women, his official spokesman has said.It comes after the UK Supreme Court ruled last week that a woman is defined by biological sex under equalities law.
In March 2022, when he was leader of the opposition, Sir Keir told the Times that "a woman is a female adult, and in addition to that transwomen are women, and that is not just my view - that is actually the law".
Asked if Sir Keir still believed that a transgender woman was a woman, the PM's official spokesman said: "No, the Supreme Court judgment has made clear that when looking at the Equality Act, a woman is a biological woman."
The spokesman added: "That is set out clearly by the court judgment."
Pressed over when the PM had changed his mind, his spokesman insisted the Labour government had been consistent that single-sex spaces "are protected in law".
The ruling also makes it clear that a person who was born male but identifies as a woman does not have the right to use spaces or services designated as for women-only.
This means transgender women with a gender recognition certificate (GRC) can be excluded from single-sex spaces if "proportionate".
The spokesman stressed the PM had repeatedly said "a woman is an adult female" before the court judgment.
In 2023, Sir Keir told The Sunday Times that for "99.9%" of women "of course they haven't got a penis".
Later that year he told BBC Radio 5 Live "a woman is an adult female".
And in April 2024 he said Rosie Duffield, who quit the party last year, was right to say "only women have a cervix", telling ITV: "Biologically, she of course is right about that."
Sir Keir had previously been critical of Duffield's views on trans people when she was a Labour MP, saying in 2021 that she was "not right" to say only women have a cervix.
Asked whether Sir Keir would now use a trans woman's preferred pronouns, the spokesman declined to comment on "hypotheticals" but insisted the PM had "been clear that trans women should be treated with the same dignity and respect as anyone else".
Earlier on Monday Sir Keir welcomed the court's decision, saying it had given "much-needed clarity" for those drawing up guidance.
In his first public comments since the ruling last week, the PM told ITV West Country: "We need to move and make sure that we now ensure that all guidance is in the right place according to that judgment."
Asked if he does not believe a transwoman is a woman, he said: "A woman is an adult female, and the court has made that absolutely clear."
Earlier, Equalities Minister Bridget Phillipson was pressed over whether a trans woman should use a women's toilet or a men's toilet.
"That should be on the basis of biological sex - that would apply right across the board to all single-sex provision," she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"But the EHRC [Equality and Human Rights Commission] will be setting out additional guidance and a statutory code of practice because we need to make sure that everyone has the ability to access services that are safe and appropriate and respect their privacy and dignity."
Phillipson added that "many businesses have moved towards unisex provision or separate cubicles that can be used by anyone".
Asked whether there was unity in the Labour Party about this issue, she replied: "I speak for the government on this matter and I can be crystal clear with you that we welcome the ruling."
Many Labour MPs will be uneasy about the comments from Sir Keir and Phillipson.
For now this appears confined to private frustration.
Some MPs who have campaigned in support of trans rights pointed to commitments in Labour's general election manifesto to introduce a "trans-inclusive ban on conversion practices" as well as to "modernise, simplify, and reform" gender recognition law.
Those are still Labour Party policies, as far as we are aware, but any sign of backsliding on that and this debate may again become a tense one within Labour's ranks.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crldey0z00ro
Cloud_Strife
Deity
It's open season on trans people here
Psychotic little island
Starmer does not believe trans women are women, No 10 says
Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer does not believe transgender women are women, his official spokesman has said.
It comes after the UK Supreme Court ruled last week that a woman is defined by biological sex under equalities law.
In March 2022, when he was leader of the opposition, Sir Keir told the Times that "a woman is a female adult, and in addition to that transwomen are women, and that is not just my view - that is actually the law".
Asked if Sir Keir still believed that a transgender woman was a woman, the PM's official spokesman said: "No, the Supreme Court judgment has made clear that when looking at the Equality Act, a woman is a biological woman."
The spokesman added: "That is set out clearly by the court judgment."
Pressed over when the PM had changed his mind, his spokesman insisted the Labour government had been consistent that single-sex spaces "are protected in law".
The ruling also makes it clear that a person who was born male but identifies as a woman does not have the right to use spaces or services designated as for women-only.
This means transgender women with a gender recognition certificate (GRC) can be excluded from single-sex spaces if "proportionate".
The spokesman stressed the PM had repeatedly said "a woman is an adult female" before the court judgment.
In 2023, Sir Keir told The Sunday Times that for "99.9%" of women "of course they haven't got a penis".
Later that year he told BBC Radio 5 Live "a woman is an adult female".
And in April 2024 he said Rosie Duffield, who quit the party last year, was right to say "only women have a cervix", telling ITV: "Biologically, she of course is right about that."
Sir Keir had previously been critical of Duffield's views on trans people when she was a Labour MP, saying in 2021 that she was "not right" to say only women have a cervix.
Asked whether Sir Keir would now use a trans woman's preferred pronouns, the spokesman declined to comment on "hypotheticals" but insisted the PM had "been clear that trans women should be treated with the same dignity and respect as anyone else".
Earlier on Monday Sir Keir welcomed the court's decision, saying it had given "much-needed clarity" for those drawing up guidance.
In his first public comments since the ruling last week, the PM told ITV West Country: "We need to move and make sure that we now ensure that all guidance is in the right place according to that judgment."
Asked if he does not believe a transwoman is a woman, he said: "A woman is an adult female, and the court has made that absolutely clear."
Earlier, Equalities Minister Bridget Phillipson was pressed over whether a trans woman should use a women's toilet or a men's toilet.
"That should be on the basis of biological sex - that would apply right across the board to all single-sex provision," she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"But the EHRC [Equality and Human Rights Commission] will be setting out additional guidance and a statutory code of practice because we need to make sure that everyone has the ability to access services that are safe and appropriate and respect their privacy and dignity."
Phillipson added that "many businesses have moved towards unisex provision or separate cubicles that can be used by anyone".
Asked whether there was unity in the Labour Party about this issue, she replied: "I speak for the government on this matter and I can be crystal clear with you that we welcome the ruling."
Many Labour MPs will be uneasy about the comments from Sir Keir and Phillipson.
For now this appears confined to private frustration.
Some MPs who have campaigned in support of trans rights pointed to commitments in Labour's general election manifesto to introduce a "trans-inclusive ban on conversion practices" as well as to "modernise, simplify, and reform" gender recognition law.
Those are still Labour Party policies, as far as we are aware, but any sign of backsliding on that and this debate may again become a tense one within Labour's ranks.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crldey0z00ro
Cloud_Strife
Deity
don't worry, rape is effectively decriminalized, women are still routinely underpayed and the national institutions are broken but trans people know their place
best of british
best of british
Starmer is a total disgrace (and not just because of his recent transphobia).
One thin silver lining is that polling suggests that the British public is often a lot more socially liberal than MPs and the media might expect. Also, gender reassignment surgery is still a protected category under the Equality Act (US-style bathroom bans would be direct discrimination, after all), so the transphobes haven't won yet, not by a long shot.
One thin silver lining is that polling suggests that the British public is often a lot more socially liberal than MPs and the media might expect. Also, gender reassignment surgery is still a protected category under the Equality Act (US-style bathroom bans would be direct discrimination, after all), so the transphobes haven't won yet, not by a long shot.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Trying to reconcile this with the fact they control the ehrc, nhs and trans healthcare
Cloud_Strife
Deity
It means they've won
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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Sex is also a protected category as well though. So when you have two opposing worldviews that pit "sex" and "gender identity" against each other in an irreconcilable way, how do you sort that mess out? It's almost like the act isn't really very well thought out.
If you're providing a bathroom for everyone then you can't really say there's any direct discrimination. Which only really leaves indirect discrimination on grounds of dignity/embarrassment etc. But then you have two groups of people, who are both in protected categories, arguing that either of two mutually exclusive states of affairs causes embarrassment, emotional stress etc to their particular group. So good luck coming up with a coherent ruling on that one.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
We're not a threat to cis women, to treat us like we are and force us into so-called "3rd spaces" and effectively out ourselves is bigotry.
These people "terfs/gender criticals" etc want us gone; to make being trans intolerable and impossible both legally and socially.
These people "terfs/gender criticals" etc want us gone; to make being trans intolerable and impossible both legally and socially.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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Well, you can argue that if you like but it's not really relevant from a legal point of view as far as I can see. You have two rooms, A and B, and one group is saying being told to use room A violates their dignity, and another group is saying letting the first group in room B violates their dignity. And both groups are protected under the equality act from having their dignity violated, or from indirect discrimination causing emotional distress. What's the answer? Unless you can come up with some legally enforceable definition of "emotional distress" which doesn't rely on taking someone's claims at face value, and then prove that only one of the two groups meets that definition, then there's no solution surely. Or at least, you can't categorically state up front that one of the two positions is definitely protected.
I'm already on record as saying that this ruling won't bring clarity or coherency, but the same act makes it legal to espouse "gender critical" views (on the principle that it's a sincerely held belief in an established and important philosophical position) is that same act that would need to be repealed (or at the very least extensively modified) to permit "bathroom bans".
We all know that terfs aren't actual feminists, because if they were, even half a second of thought would mean that bathroom bans would mean (trans) men ending up in women's bathrooms, which is literally the main thing that they claim to hate.
We all know that terfs aren't actual feminists, because if they were, even half a second of thought would mean that bathroom bans would mean (trans) men ending up in women's bathrooms, which is literally the main thing that they claim to hate.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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Well not if they view them as women obviously.
