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UK Politics - Weeny, Weedy, Weaky

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Arakhor, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Firstly, that would be the Belgian empire. Secondly, trust you to reach for the empire with a worse colonial record than ours, because cultural sensitivity really isn't your thing.

    Thirdly, there I was thinking we were labouring under the onerous rule of Kaiserin Angela or Empereur Emmanuel and suddenly you've pulled the rug from under me. Don't tell me that the Fail and the Torygraph have been lying to me all this time?!
     
  2. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    And did those feet in ancient time
    Walk upon Englands mountains green:
    And was the holy Lamb of God,
    On Englands pleasant pastures seen!

    And did the Countenance Divine,
    Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
    And was Jerusalem builded here,
    Among these dark Satanic Mills?

    Bring me my Bow of burning gold:
    Bring me my arrows of desire:
    Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
    Bring me my Chariot of fire!

    I will not cease from Mental Fight,
    Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand:
    Till we have built Jerusalem,
    In Englands green & pleasant Land.


    The intention of Blake could have been ironical.... critisising the romantic nationalism of England (made divine by the Anglican Church)
    But I guess, certainly at the Last Night of the Proms, it is seen today exactly the other way around... as patriotic devoted to "the Empire", the true legacy of Rome, of Jerusalem, the centre of the Earth.

    https://interestingliterature.com/2017/04/26/a-short-analysis-of-william-blakes-jerusalem/

     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  3. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    The german colonial empire was also infamous for a mass genocide :p
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_genocide

    Granted, that got overshadowed by its hugely larger ww2 epic of efficient despatching.
     
  4. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Jerusalem is a wonderful song, but like any expression of patriotism, it also needs to be used with moderation.
     
  5. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    Yes :)
    Is a bit of self-irony not also a kind of moderation ?
    The first time I heard it, I was very much touched by it.
    It is the kind of emotional binging that I also have with football matches of Ajax or our national team, when the whole stadium is singing.
    One of our most popular football anthems (de Zilvervloot) is the song where we still celebrate that we conquered for the first time the Spanish silver fleet
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  6. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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  7. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

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  8. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Meanwhile, there are now accusations of tactical voting in the Tory leader elections. Why did Rory Stewart attract more votes than Dominic Raab, but then suddenly lose a third of them after Raab was eliminated, and why did Johnson's vote share not increase by the number of people who said they were going to back him after Sajid Javid's exit, yet Jeremy Hunt managed to pull ahead of Michael Gove in that crucial final vote? Does anyone believe that it was sheer coincidence that in both of those surprising results, Johnson's main rival (Raab and Gove) was eliminated each time?
     
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  9. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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  10. really

    really Chieftain

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    Does it matter?
    Unless MPs were being coerced in some way can they not vote tactically?

    It might smell a bit off but what individual MPs do is up to themselves.
     
  11. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Just makes having an election for leader rather pointless if it is going to be rigged each step of the way.
     
  12. really

    really Chieftain

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    But who is rigging it?
    It isn't dark money being spent on Facebook to spread fake news to a unsuspecting populace.

    It's vote management if say Raab was smarter or more popular it wouldn't have happened that way.
     
  13. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    You think Hunt is some kind of genius? :)
    Ie it does seem he was rather blatantly pushed, and not because they like him. He was pushed to allow Boris an easy win.
    It's not just Raab. It was the Gove too.
     
  14. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Well groups like the ERG will only have themselves to blame for backing someone without principles.
    Add to that the likelihood of Gavin Williamson being given a big job as reward for his help in getting Boris elected and we are really going to have a government of nothing but backstabbing sneaks.
     
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  15. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Well, maybe not, but you may recall that Michael Gove torpedoed Johnson's chances in 2017, eventually leading to May's uncontested appointment, and this move to box out Gove is said to be a direct result of that. Of course, in a party renowned for holding grudges and repaying old slights, chances are that Raab, Stewart and/or Gove might find it in themselves to slight Johnson at a more opportune time.
     
  16. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    United we stand
     
  17. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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  18. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    It was a secret ballot, and that should have prevented coercion.
    I don't believe some of the tactical conspiracy theories listed.

    I prefer to believe that the conservative MPs know deep down that the EU
    won't budge; and they are likely looking for a leader for a general election.
    Boris Johnson has charisma, while Jeremy Hunt seems a safe pair of hands.

    Michael Gove comes across as a smart arse that will annoy the electorate,
    and each of the others has their weakness.
     
  19. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    Well
    I would prefer the papal lock them up method on water and bread (no cutlery) until one emerges as chosen leader.
    But we get Bread and Circuses instead, and for good measure that should include conniving conspiracies. I think it happened, but whether it was necessary IDK.

    And yes... I think this is about optimising towards a general election.
     
  20. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Accusing Tory MPs of tactical voting seems to invoke that old wisdom, "do not attribute to malice what may be satisfactorily explained by stupidity".
     
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