Ukraine and Russia may go to war

Status
Not open for further replies.
if you keep ignoring people they tend to think they are actually capable of doing . Sad but true .
 
Again, even if I accepted all claims in your post at face value, I find it strange how you seem to ignore that this "US plan" hinges entirely on Russia's willingness to invade and annex pieces of its neighbor. As if that was something Russia was forced to do to survive... all while you yourself admit they actually have nothing to fear from US.

Just pointing out Russian tendency to call what happened in Kiev a "foreign coup" due to this alleged financial assistance, while what happened in Donbass was, of course, bona fide civil war.

Well using that logic one can declear Russia a fake country and peel off Dagestan or something.
 
Just pointing out Russian tendency to call what happened in Kiev a "foreign coup" due to this alleged financial assistance, while what happened in Donbass was, of course, bona fide civil war.
Both cases started as genuine grassroot protests. In Kiev it didn't escalate into full blown civil war, because Yanukovich ran away after few months of protests instead of sending tanks and planes against protesters.
 
Well using that logic one can declear Russia a fake country and peel off Dagestan or something.
The first part was basically the original Bolshevik position. They only got cold feet once people started trying to do the second part.

It turns out, all nation-building projects are first and foremost state-building projects, so national identity will dance to the tune of state interest.
 
uh , ClA releases another estimate , ı guess .

edit: Follows after the post about decisive nights
 
I'm too lazy to check his post history. I only noticed he posted BS regarding "oppression of Russian language" in Ukraine, and responded. Smells like RusPropaganda narrative, probably Russian or Russian sympathizer. Idk.
If you believe that there was no oppression of Russian language, perhaps correct the wiki article on Poroshenko.

On 25 September 2017, a new law on education was signed by President Poroshenko (draft approved by
Rada on 5 September 2017) which says that the Ukrainian language is the language of education at
all levels except for one or more subjects that are allowed to be taught in two or more languages,
namely English or one of the other official languages of the European Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petro_Poroshenko#Language_policy

IOW, not Russian, even in the regions where the Russian language was dominant.
 
so , at this late hour for Turkey , ı was going to bed and just wanted to check the latest and ugh , there was no internet connection ! What ? ı thought WW lll would be fought with trading insults on the web !
 
Both cases started as genuine grassroot protests. In Kiev it didn't escalate into full blown civil war, because Yanukovich ran away after few months of protests instead of sending tanks and planes against protesters.

And in Donbas it did escalate into full blown war only because of Russian efforts. Other parts of South-Eastern Ukraine had similar riots, but they were quelled either by the authorities or by pro-Ukraine locals themselves, basically bloodless (except in Odessa).

Russia put immense effort into fomenting the riots in Donetsk and Lugansk, capturing administrative buildings (I guess you remember what role Girkin's squad played), and then employing Russian army when the rebels were almost squashed by Ukrainian forces. Russia was desperate to make sure Ukraine gets a Civil war in 2014, and they finally succeeded.
 
On the ground.

Even chance of pincer movement by Russia to take most of east Ukraine?

The case for 'liberating Russians ' is less but Putin seems to claim all of Ukraine, the troops are in place and no major opposing force deployed after the first move.
 
And in Donbas it did escalate into full blown war only because of Russian efforts. Other parts of South-Eastern Ukraine had similar riots, but they were quelled either by the authorities or by pro-Ukraine locals themselves, basically bloodless (except in Odessa).
It takes two to tango. Rebels demands were not unreasonable - decentralization reform and restoring regional status of Russian language. National minorities in many other countries have more rights than Donetsk people wanted. Ukraine sent army against them.

And Russia didn't want to get involved. Putin warned people before referendum in DPR/LPR, that they should not do it, as it will make things worse. Rebels didn't have heavy weaponry before July-August 2014, except those few APCs surrendered by Ukrainians.
 
The self-determination axe cuts both ways—didn’t the Chechens want independence, and Russia sent in its armies?
Talked about it a little earlier this thread (edit: see beginning page 179). I think the conclusion was that Russia decided the Chechens didn't deserve self-determination because it wasn't convenient for Russia
 
Last edited:
Chechens got independence in 1997. Ended up sending Islamist gangs to invade neighboring Russia's region.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom