Ukraine and Russia may go to war

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Kyriakos, Mar 13, 2021.

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  1. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    PLC 4 lyfe.
     
  2. Gelion

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    Lithuania doesn't want anything, trust me on this :D Maybe a bit of Belarus, but not much more.
     
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  3. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Ukrainian officials keep criticizing the deal between Germany and USA, saying it ignores Ukrainian interests and doesn't provide acceptable compensation.
    https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-po...-ukraine-has-not-received-any-guarantees.html
     
  4. Joij21

    Joij21 Emperor

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    Are they still going to war or is it hyperbole at this point?
     
  5. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    No one's going to war. Amazing, that there exists at least as much sanity, but apparently there exists.
     
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  6. Verbose

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    If they are, going by the MO so far it might happen when everyone has stopped expecting it, when it has been deemed mere hyperbole by all reasonable observers.

    Putin talking about Ukraine recently might better be regarded as setting things up for this possibility – not for any immediate particular use, but for future reference, as and when it might come in handy.
     
  7. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Ukrainian officials predict Russia will invade right after Nord Stream 2 pipeline is completed.
    it's 99% completed by now, few weeks to go.
     
  8. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Urrah


     
  9. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    But that beetroot farm is, and always has been, Lithuanian sacred ground! :)
     
  10. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    The video is making big news, surprisingly:



     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2021
  11. Красный Комиссар

    Красный Комиссар Warlord

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    The girl from the photo was hounded by the Ukrainian Nazis. She was even summoned to the Ministry of Defense to give an explanation. After that, the girl's rhetoric changed to nationalist. (she wanted to live)

    Another Olympic champion also recently almost got in the face in the center of the capital. The Nazis claimed that he was a monkey and offered to emigrate to Africa. The Nazis did not like the fact that Jean Beleniuk is black and asked the "wrong" question - "why do officials of the Ministry of Sports fly to Tokyo at the state expense, but the coach of the national team does not."
    As a reference - Jean Beleniuk is a world champion in Greco-Roman wrestling and a member of parliament from the ruling party.

    And this is the mayor of Krivoy Rog. He was a member of the opposition party and had the audacity to win the election of a candidate from the ruling party. Even the presence of a carbine did not save him.
    Spoiler photo 18+ :
     
  12. Joij21

    Joij21 Emperor

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    Which means what? An invasion or just ethnic problems?
     
  13. Красный Комиссар

    Красный Комиссар Warlord

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    It is interconnected. Not only Ukrainians, but also Russians live on the territory of Ukraine. Moreover, some Ukrainians also speak Russian, we have a common religion, history, culture, etc... Even 30 anti-Russian propaganda and the civil war could not completely change this.

    But there are forces that want everything to be different. These are countries hostile to Russia and the local Ukrainian bourgeoisie.

    The states were Austria-Hungary in the second half of the 19th century, then (historically) Poland, Germany, Great Britain, after the war the United States joined them. The task is simple - to inspire some Ukrainians that they are a separate people (a huge percentage of people in Ukraine still do not think so) and the main enemy is Russia. It is not difficult to guess that the main force ready to do this is the Ukrainian nationalists and Nazis.

    Another force (the local bourgeoisie) is interested in concentrating financial flows in their own hands and not being responsible to the center (Moscow). They want to milk the cow themselves. Even the pseudo-pro-Russian part of the Ukrainian bourgeoisie (for example, the" party of Regions " of Yanukovych or its rebrand "Opposition platform for life", the murdered mer Krivoy Rog belonged to it) They promised the state status to the Russian language, friendship with Russia, etc. in words, but they did not fulfill these promises. In fact, they were afraid of Russia and its bourgeoisie. If the two countries unite in a competitive struggle, the Ukrainian oligarchs will obviously lose to the richer Russian oligarchs. This forces the Ukrainian bourgeoisie to flirt with the nationalists. It is so now, and it was so 100 years ago.

    The joint problem of these forces is that they got the "wrong people of Ukraine". Even despite the propaganda and the civil war, the far-right parties hardly get into parliament. The people do not support them. As a result of the 2014 coup, the pro-Western bourgeoisie, agents of influence of Western countries and the ultra-right are in power. In total, this is 10-15% of the population. Naturally, the rest of the population did not like it very much.
    Crimea separated immediately (there were 1-2% of Ukrainian-speaking citizens there before 2013, the rest identified themselves as Russians or Crimean Tatars.
    The south and east of the country also wanted autonomy. At the beginning, it is the autonomy within Ukraine. There are many ethnic Russians in these regions and the left-wing parties are very popular. The Nazis who came to power introduced an army to the Donbass, a civil war began there. After that, they did not want to be part of Ukraine. In Odessa, people were burned alive in the House of trade Unions.

    The forces that have come to power have their own interest in this war - the war justifies the existence of Ukraine as a separate state, opposes it to Russia, does not allow the two peoples to unite. For the West, another goal is the weakening of Russia. (the idea is not new, Austria-Hungary was engaged in this back in the 19th century, then Poland, then the third Reich). the official Ukrainian propaganda reacts extremely painfully to the words "civil war" in their narrative is the Ukrainian-Russian war. The problem is that for the entire time of the war, only 3 citizens of the Russian Federation were captured. The rest were citizens of Ukraine who did not like the Nazis. Decide for yourself whether it is an ethnic conflict, a civil war or Russian aggression.

    My point of view is a new round of the cold war between the collective West and Russia. And Ukraine is just a part of the chess field in someone else's game.

    Regarding the athletes and the murdered mayor, these are typical, but very vivid manifestations of what is happening in the country.
     
  14. Snowygerry

    Snowygerry Prince

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    And the 'collective West' in this context is everything West of Kiev all the way to the Pacific Ocean ?
     
  15. Красный Комиссар

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    The main influence is exerted by the United States. There are also interests of Germany and Poland. Everyone else is to a lesser extent, but you can see for yourself that in the UN, for example, Western countries vote for the same thing. (for example, for sanctions against Russia). Other countries also send military advisers, sell weapons, etc.

    Let me clarify - I mean the government and representatives of large financial and industrial capital, and not ordinary residents of Western countries.
     
  16. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    What do you think about Anatoly Sharij and his party?
     
  17. Snowygerry

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    You mean the sanctions in regard to the Minsk agreements ?

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/...the-destabilisation-of-ukraine-by-six-months/

    They are EU sanctions - not UN sanctions - the RF has veto power in the UN council.
     
  18. Красный Комиссар

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    The countries that voted for sanctions in the EU and the countries that supported the United States in the UN are the same countries. In any case, the United States is the main one in this matter, and how they will force weaker states to vote is already a detail. The peculiarity of Western countries is that Russia (China, Ukraine, India..) they are considered not as a potential partner, but only as a potential colony. And we don't like this fate.

    The reunification of the Crimea and Russia is not a reason, but only a formal pretext. If there were no Crimea, they would have come up with something else.
     
  19. Красный Комиссар

    Красный Комиссар Warlord

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    Sharij. An interesting blogger, very popular (if I'm not mistaken, No. 1 in Ukraine. 2.5 million subscribers on YouTube - this is a lot for Ukraine.) He says the right things, actively criticizes the authorities, the Nazis, openly talks about the external management of the country. All this terribly enrages both the authorities and the Nazis... But something is missing in it. Judging by his own statements, he is a libertarian. I don't think that fascists can be replaced with liberals and this will have a positive effect. Ukraine needs more radical therapy. But for lack of an alternative, I voted for his party in the last election.)))

    And his problem is that he is in Spain and cannot return. He fled even before the coup d'etat because they wanted to kill him for his journalistic activities
     
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  20. red_elk

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    I like him too, sometimes watch his videos. He advocates for the rights of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine and criticizes the government for many things, especially how they treat people in Donbass. He criticized Russian government on a few occasions too, but in general his views are IMO positive towards Russia. Hope his party will get seats in Rada.
     

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