Ukraine and Russia may go to war

[Gelion]

Capitalism can't be evil or not evil, it's a concept and a tool.

Just like communism?

 

[warpus]

Yep, definitely. So far only idiots and blood thirsty tyrants have been successful in implementing communism in any capacity. If it was done properly, hey, who knows

Personally I feel that the "right" approach would include tidbits from various ideologies: socialism, democracy, capitalism, communism...

Put all your marbles in one ideological basket and you are going to fail though.

 

[Zardnaar]

Pretty much my theory. Some sort of hybrid model.

Eastern Europe never really developed state institutions, civil society and trust of government to minimize corruption.

 

[Snowygerry]

I've heard from one Belarusian immigrant that he likes it here because Belgium is more socialist then Belarus

 

[Joij21]

Eastern Europe never really developed state institutions, civil society and trust of government to minimize corruption.

I mean Western European institutions are also corrupt as well as Southern European institutions. They never experienced the totalitarian regimes of the East and yet they too still have their own corruption problems. The way I see it is that corruption is a part of human nature, and those humans who are in a position of power where they know they won't suffer any consequences will do it. There have to be consequences and genuine fear in order to reduce and minimize corruption among humans, no fear means more corruption.

 

[Zardnaar]

I mean Western European institutions are also corrupt as well as Southern European institutions. They never experienced the totalitarian regimes of the East and yet they too still have their own corruption problems. The way I see it is that corruption is a part of human nature, and those humans who are in a position of power where they know they won't suffer any consequences will do it. There have to be consequences and genuine fear in order to reduce and minimize corruption among humans, no fear means more corruption.

Sorta but you can't bribe a cop generally. They exported those institutions as well and the least corrupt countries in the world are dominated by those countries and colonies.

We had a case here last week where an immigrant offered a cop a bribe. Said immigrant got charged and is being deported.

You can also (generally) vote out the government in free and fair elections because of those state institutions.

17/20 top 20 are European or colonies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

 

[Samson]

We had a case here last week where an immigrant offered a cop a bribe. Said immigrant got charged and is being deported.

Don't you just have to phrase the offer as "Is there an on the spot fine for this offence?"

 

[Sofista]

I mean Western European institutions are also corrupt as well as Southern European institutions.

Greece and Rome. Where the Western civilization was born.

 

[Zardnaar]

Don't you just have to phrase the offer as "Is there an on the spot fine for this offence?"

Doesn't really matter law here is more all about spirit vs letter.

Even implying a bribe would get you charged and they can revoke the visa without a criminal conviction. Failing that they just let it expire.

Congratulations legally you win have fun getting deported back to India.

 

[Joij21]

Greece and Rome. Where the Western civilization was born.

Yeah, I was referring to how at least there is a differentiation between the Germanic North and Northwestern European states and the Southern Latin and Greek European states. Obviously both are part of the larger West but they have different cultures with different ways of doing things as well as significantly different treatment within the EU.

 

[Joij21]

You can also (generally) vote out the government in free and fair elections because of those state institutions.

Oh perhaps I'm thinking more of the U.S. of A.

 

[Zardnaar]

Oh perhaps I'm thinking more of the U.S. of A.

USA ismid 20's iirc.

Better than most but not the best.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

I am I highly skeptical of these 'perception' indexes which are highly subjective and influenced by factors that have nothing to do with corruption. I prefer a index based on facts, as the bribery index or the multinational bribery index, where they ask people if have ever bribered or personally seen bribery.

 

[Zardnaar]

I am I highly skeptical of these 'perception' indexes which are highly subjective and influenced by factors that have nothing to do with corruption. I prefer a index based on facts, as the bribery index or the multinational bribery index, where they ask people if have ever bribered or personally seen bribery.

Corruption exists everywhere to some extent.
It's virtually inconceivable here to bribe a cop or public servant.

The occasional corrupt cop sometimes get caught but usually it's due to personal connections to said cop vs random stranger bribing them.

It's what happens if you get caught, the likelihood of getting caught and the consequences. Eg getting deported if you try and bribe a cop.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Corruption exists everywhere to some extent.
It's virtually inconceivable here to bribe a cop or public servant.

The occasional corrupt cop sometimes get caught but usually it's due to personal connections to said cop vs random stranger bribing them.

Same here. If you ask 10,000 and nobody has ever bribed, been bribed or have ever personally seen bribery, that is a more reliable way of knowing corruption is negligible than whatever people see in TV.

 

[Zardnaar]

Same here. If you ask 10,000 and nobody has ever bribed, been bribed or have ever personally seen bribery, that is a more reliable way of knowing corruption is negligible than whatever people see in TV.

I think you'll find a few of us in countries like that line up with the corruption index.

Sorry I forget what country you're from what one is it?

 

[Thorgalaeg]

I think you'll find a few of us in countries like that line up with the corruption index.

Sorry I forget what country you're from what one is it?

Spain.

 

[Zardnaar]

Spain.

I wouldn't try and bribe a cop in Spain nor expect to be shaken down by one.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

I wouldn't try and bribe a cop in Spain nor expect to be shaken down by one.

Spain is a peculiar case, rates mediocrily in perception index for EU standards, only slightly better than Portugal, Italy, Greece and eastern new members, but scores among the best in brivery index. It is a case of everybody speaking about corruption but nobody has seen it personally.

 

[Zardnaar]

Spain is a peculiar case, rates mediocrily in perception index for EU standards, only slightly better than Portugal, Italy, Greece and eastern new members, but scores among the best in brivery index. It is a case of everybody speaking about corruption but nobody has seen it personally.

Might be easier to convince some higher ups about various decisions.

Or that airport you built that never got used.