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Ukraine Crisis master thread

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Winner, Mar 4, 2014.

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  1. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    ... for discussing the latest development in what is probably the biggest and most serious crisis between Russia and the West, as well as one of the major upheavals in a post-Soviet country since 1989.

    Stay on topic!
     
  2. kramerfan86

    kramerfan86 Chieftain

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    The longer this goes on the greater chance there is of an accident happening and escalating it.
     
  3. Angst

    Angst Rambling and inconsistent

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    Didn't Russia just invade Crimea or something?

    It was in the papers but I admit I am too lazy to google.

    Additionally, I can't say anything nearly as relevant about it as other people on this forum. I'm kinda just throwing the ball out there.
     
  4. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Chieftain

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    Yes Joakim, Russian troops have effectively seized Crimea, though they are still denying involvement as far as I know. Maybe that's changed, I haven't updated myself today.

    I think Ukraine is screwed either way, regardless of the outcome here. There is absolutely no win-win for them, not even a win-lose, just a lose-lose.
     
  5. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    Yes, let's hope Putin gets a grip and calls off his troops from Crimea. So far nobody has died, but every hour this drags on, the risk of bloodshed increases.
     
  6. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos Fool Prophet

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    In this thread or in the Ukraine?
     
  7. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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  8. kramerfan86

    kramerfan86 Chieftain

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    Supposedly warning shots were fired at one point today, stuff like that is how it can quickly spiral.
     
  9. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos Fool Prophet

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    That test was scheduled a long time ago. If you really want to scratch the cover off for ulterior motives, check reports on meteorites around the time of the launch.
     
  10. ywhtptgtfo

    ywhtptgtfo Chieftain

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    So are the Russians invading or not. It's very hard to sort through all the contradicting reports.
     
  11. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    How revealing that you think this is in any way related to Ukraine.
     
  12. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    What contradicting reports?

    There are Russian troops in Crimea, in violation of Ukrainian sovereignty. They've moved in from the Russian bases in Sevastopol, by air through airports first secured by Russian paratroopers, and now heavy gear is being brought in across the Kerch strait, via Russian-occupied ferry station. They've set up roadblocks and surrounded military installations still held by the Ukrainian military.

    Are they invading? Nah, I am sure they're just tourists on holiday...
     
  13. LamaGT

    LamaGT Chieftain

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    After 50 pages and no particular news for a few days Poland was bound to be discussed :lol:
    In any case yes, even if Ukraine stays with the same nominal borders it's gonna remain in terrible condition for at least a couple of decades. With the west gifting the Ukrainian people such an enlightened government and Russia holding the country by the balls economically it just can't end well.
     
  14. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    If Russia chooses to economically crush Ukraine, then EU should retaliate against Russia in the same manner:

     
  15. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

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    Boycott all Russia's state-owned corporations is perhaps the best tactic. The revenues of such companies are being used to pay off Putin's cronies and his days are numbered when he doesn't have that money.
     
  16. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    if Russia really invade Ukraine, isn't the allies suppose to be protecting their allies according to the agreement that they made in 1992 (IIRC). So I thought the allies also affirming the Russia notion, that this is not an invasion or occupation. If the allies think otherwise they shouldn't only talk the talk but also walk the walk. But I think they know because this one is different than lets said Iraq and Afghanistan invasion, if the military enter a country (and being welcome) is an invasion, then many 'wild' American military post around the world can be consider as invader also.
     
  17. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    Yes. Also, the usual argument that "if we do it, Russians will turn off the gas" is pretty lame. The Russian state budget is very dependent on oil/gas revenues, the vast majority of which comes from Europe. Without this money, it's questionable how long could Putin's regime last.

    Total shut-off would of course hurt the EU, but not nearly as much and there are counter-measures against that, such as increased imports from elsewhere. Russia, on the other hand, cannot sell this oil/gas anywhere else because it lacks the transport infrastructure needed to deliver it there.

    If the EU had the balls, it could end Putinism in a matter of 1-2 years.
     
  18. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos Fool Prophet

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    Ukraine is already economically crushed. That's part of the reason there was an uprising in the first place (with Yanukovych being overblamed). Gazprom (Russia) has so far been very lenient with the gas supply considering how Ukraine's payments have been lagging.
     
  19. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

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    Actually, it could be as fast as a couple of months. The key is to get the military turn on him - the way almost all dictators are deposed.

    Duh, GazProm is a political tool for Putin.
     
  20. Yeekim

    Yeekim Warlord

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    Sure. However, I am not too optimistic about that. Our esteemed friends the French even refused to cancel their deal to sell Mistral battleships to Russia, afaik. And that is just one example.

    Sent from my G740-L00 using Tapatalk
     
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