Ukraine Crisis master thread

[KevinLancaster]

Humans.

 

[Verbose]

You are still thinking in the archaic way of flags and colors and line drawn on maps.

The only real protection any of us are still guaranteed, is the one provided by our citizenship. You're not an innovative thinker in this, just confused. Angry too, obviously.

 

[Verbose]

Another interesting thought: if this is about the rights of Russian speakers and historical restitution, what about the rights of non-Russian speakers? Or are some peoples more equal than others?

If the world turns merely on power and the willingness to use it, then the ones that have the most power, and are most willing to use it, get what they want, and the rest get to experience the joys of obedience. Everything runs on power and fear, and there is no justice. "The strong do what they want, and the weak suffer what they must."(Thukydides)

It's pretty much Putin's gambit. With the likely added rider that the west in decadent and depraved, and thus weak and despicable, and likely won't even help or protect itself.

 

[NewEnd]

So who wasn't aware Russia is a part of the world economy?

They knew it was a part of the economy. Just not a player in the balance of power.

It's been the EU gambit to MAKE it so these last 20 years.

This is arrogant beyond comprehension.

The bit that's likely going to bite Russia regardless, is that it is now the master of 3% of the world GDP, on the condition that it presents a picture and situation amenable to business and trade. Armies traipsing about, provinces lopped off of neighbours, threats and intimidation, are all things that typically makes markets and investors seriously nervous, making them head for the exits.

Keep wishing. Nobody is going to care about Crimea in 6 years, or the Ukraine, when Russia gets a new puppet government in the Ukraine. And mark my words, they will. By then, the EU will be even more economically, politically, and militarily feeble than it is now, to stop it.

What is really funny, is if NATO tries to upgrade the Ukrainian military, they will simply be handing that over to Russia in 4or 6 years.
This is not a struggle that can be won with military arms. It is a propaganda struggle. And Russia WILL win, because NATO has lots of words, but it has simply committed too much murder, debt enslavement and hypocrisy for anybody to truly take them seriously when they talk of bringing freedom and democracy.

Russia is where it is for being a good boy so far. If Russia turns naughty, it might still all change.

This patronizing attitude of the west, led by the youngest, most stupid little brat of them all, the United States, will be its downfall.

That paddle you have been slapping butts with for decades will be wrested from you, and it will be slapped across your face.

The only real protection any of us are still guaranteed, is the one provided by our citizenship. You're not an innovative thinker in this, just confused. Angry too, obviously.

Who exactly am I protected from? Who takes more from me than my own government? How is this guaranteed at all? Where is this guarantee? Can I see this guarantee? Who will enforce the guarantee if my nation decides to rescind its guarantee right when I need it? You want me to cling to my flag because somebody says it will protect me, when all my experience shows, you can not fight city hall?

If the world turns merely on power and the willingness to use it, then the ones that have the most power, and are most willing to use it, get what they want, and the rest get to experience the joys of obedience. Everything runs on power and fear, and there is no justice. "The strong do what they want, and the weak suffer what they must."

Amazing you quote this, after talking about Russia as if it were a child. After all that NATO has taken by force of arms. Simply amazing.

 

[Verbose]

Amazing you quote this, after talking about Russia as if it were a child. After all that NATO has taken by force of arms. Simply amazing.

I you find that amazing, it seems safe to assume that you might be in for a wild ride in the years ahead.

Or are just easily impressed. But I suspect it's all really down to a histrionic posting-style. Rhetorically sentiment is a legit strategy, but it can't make up for other weakness in an argument. You simply expressing strong feeling makes no argument in and of itself.

 

[Commy]

Today Hungary showed Ukraine territorial claims

 

[NewEnd]

Or are just easily impressed.

I am not impressed by your hypocrisy, just amazed.

 

[Akka]

I'm still as torn between black amusement and flaggerblasted amazement to see people who saw :
- The EU investing a lot in Russia and attempting to make it a commercial partner and raise friendly diplomatic links for 20 years,
- Witnessed Russia invading on of its neighbours on flimsy excuses after ramping up anti-Western rhetorics,
- Witnessed the pretty tame answer of UE (some pretty trivial sanction which basically amount to nothing),
can manage to depict the West stuck in cold war mentality and evily jumping at the throat of innocent Russia.

Now you military invade an independant country, others barely wave a finger "bad bad" and it's the latter who are the agressors ?

And if there is ONE person who is in full Old Soviet mode, it's Putin. He doesn't even hide it.

This thread so so need Soviet Russia jokes to describe how completely on their head some people's visions are.

 

[Verbose]

Frankly I keep wondering how many of these guys might even be on the Kremlin pay-roll to trawl around English language chat-forums, peddling the Kremlin version of events, contrary to better judgement, reason and sanity?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Frankly I keep wondering how many of these guys might even be on the Kremlin pay-roll to trawl around English language chat-forums, peddling the Kremlin version of events, contrary to better judgement, reason and sanity?

I've actually had the same thought.

 

[red_elk]

Frankly I keep wondering how many of these guys might even be on the Kremlin pay-roll to trawl around English language chat-forums, peddling the Kremlin version of events, contrary to better judgement, reason and sanity?

We all are on payroll. Didn't you notice a sudden change of Domen and Kaiserquard attitude? And unusual number of pro-Russian posters here?

 

[luiz]

Frankly I keep wondering how many of these guys might even be on the Kremlin pay-roll to trawl around English language chat-forums, peddling the Kremlin version of events, contrary to better judgement, reason and sanity?

I don't know about Russia, but in South America several governments actually pay people to defend those governments on the internet, mainly on the comment sections of big media sites, both domestic and foreign.

It's quite easy to spot them on the comment sections of The Economist, Bloomberg and etc, whenever there's an article criticizing some policy of the Brazilian, Argentinian or Venezuelan government. They'll usually write in bad English, and instead of addressing the topic at hand they'll accuse the media outlet if imperialism, will go on and on on how bankrupt the US/UK etc actually are and thus they should offer no advice, will mention Guantanamo / Abu Grahib and etc...

 

[Commy]

We all are on payroll.

Link to video.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

I've actually had the same thought.

LOL. You're now on my list of paranoids

 

[BirraImperial]

If I'm on the payroll, I haven't received any money yet. Where's my money Putin?

I don't even describe myself as pro-Russian, just playing devil's advocate here.
Seriously, treating people that disagree with you as paid drones won't get you anywhere. Things are not black or white, it's not evil vs good. Every country on Earth is just looking for their best interests. Russia played their cards and got Crimea while getting away with it.

 

[red_elk]

Seriously, treating people that disagree with you as paid drones won't get you anywhere. Things are not black or white, it's not evil vs good. Every country on Earth is just looking for their best interests. Russia played their cards and got Crimea while getting away with it.

Oh, c'mon. This is freaking Russia. Think about it, R-u-s-s-i-a!
Only paid drones or brainwashed idiots can support its actions. It's clear as a day

Where's my money Putin?

I guess he has put them in somewhere...

 

[Akka]

Seriously, treating people that disagree with you as paid drones won't get you anywhere. Things are not black or white, it's not evil vs good. Every country on Earth is just looking for their best interests. Russia played their cards and got Crimea while getting away with it.

Of course they aren't paid, they are just the Russian version of the USA fanatics we saw popping everywhere when Bush was doing the same circus about Iraq.
But still, seriously, there is a HUGE difference between "disagreeing with someone" and "inverting reality".

When you see people decrying "the West" as being still stuck in Cold War, just because some countries actually raise an eyebrow at the invasion of an independant state, while Putin is openly regretting the fall of the USSR, you gonna wonder what kind of drugs they are on.

 

[Verbose]

I am not impressed by your hypocrisy, just amazed.

Fine, you're not even paying attention.

 

[Verbose]

I don't know about Russia, but in South America several governments actually pay people to defend those governments on the internet, mainly on the comment sections of big media sites, both domestic and foreign.

It's quite easy to spot them on the comment sections of The Economist, Bloomberg and etc, whenever there's an article criticizing some policy of the Brazilian, Argentinian or Venezuelan government. They'll usually write in bad English, and instead of addressing the topic at hand they'll accuse the media outlet if imperialism, will go on and on on how bankrupt the US/UK etc actually are and thus they should offer no advice, will mention Guantanamo / Abu Grahib and etc...

China does the same.

Frankly, if Russia turns out not to, I'm going to be pleasently surprised.

 

[NewEnd]

Frankly I keep wondering how many of these guys might even be on the Kremlin pay-roll to trawl around English language chat-forums, peddling the Kremlin version of events, contrary to better judgement, reason and sanity?

Did your media tell you about this snowden doc-drop?

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/...ting-and-disrupting-alternative-media-online/

China does the same.

Frankly, if Russia turns out not to, I'm going to be pleasently surprised.

But does America do it? Because if you believe that, you're a conspiracy theorist, right?

It's always believable any other country does crazy things, like false flags, paid propaganda operative etc, but say America does it, then it is conspiracy theory land.