Hello
Personally I'm Polish, not Ukrainian, but it is enough for me to get invested about our eastern eighbors who share cuisine with us
There are many negative associations around Ukrainian history, which actually ma be connected to certain political events and agenda of their actors, and which shoot down interest in Ukrainian nation making it barely ever apear in discussions like this, silently treating it as "not as real" nation as other European peoples:
- "Ukrainian language is just an offshoot of Russian": no it isn't, they are highly different languages evolving separatedly since the medieval era
- "Ukrainian culture is just an offshoot of Russian culture": no it isn't, it is quite different since the medieval era in writing, pronunciation and vocabulary (which contained a ton of Polish, Latin and Turkish influences, not seen in Russian)
- "Ukraine has little history": Ukraine has very rich ancient history (Tripolye culture, Bronze Age, Scythians, Greeks), it was the center of Kievan Rus in the early medieval era instead of Russia, it was a huge part of Poland - Lithuania, and since 16th century Cossack leaders and states and very strong Ukrainian identity emerged. Certain Cossack states were also independent or highly autonomous for 100 - 150 years. And then as a part of Russian and Soviet empires...
- "What have Ukrainians ever done for us?" a ton of top tier "Russian" or "Soviet" famous people, scientists etc were actually Ukrainian. Ukraine was super important for Eastern Europe, Russian military relied on Cossacks (Napoleon feared them), they have settled Siberia etc. Ukraine had flourishing higher education since 16th century, which turned it into the relay of Western civilisation to Russia.
- "Okay but do they have something interesting to offer games like this?"
Cossack culture was a super unique stratocratic, egalitarian society of lightning fast warriors, ruled to a large degree by a military democracy and accepting refugees wanting to be free. Cossack armies (usually given as a military unit to Russia) were very powerful, as I said, and you could find a lot of unit diversity within them, not being limited to one generic unit. Architecture, music and art were very distinctively different from Russia and Poland. And as I said, the image of brutish warriors collides with the flourishing of education under their rule. They also had many powerful personalities leading them, so they are not only limited to Bogdan Khmelnytsky but have several other candidates, such as Ivan Mazepa for example.
Also Ukrainian people would love to appear as a separate, respected nation in a game like this, so it would be a nice gesture.
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Usually I have advocated for Kievan Rus instead, but then I have realized that 1) It doesn't represented Ukraine at all, 2) It really collides with Russian city list and stuff, 3) Ukrainian civ would be far more spectacular and interesting and 4) Regarding delicate political stuff, Ukrainians themselves wouldn't necessarily be happy when presented as "the exact same people as Russians, under one umbrella"
Personally I'm Polish, not Ukrainian, but it is enough for me to get invested about our eastern eighbors who share cuisine with us
There are many negative associations around Ukrainian history, which actually ma be connected to certain political events and agenda of their actors, and which shoot down interest in Ukrainian nation making it barely ever apear in discussions like this, silently treating it as "not as real" nation as other European peoples:
- "Ukrainian language is just an offshoot of Russian": no it isn't, they are highly different languages evolving separatedly since the medieval era
- "Ukrainian culture is just an offshoot of Russian culture": no it isn't, it is quite different since the medieval era in writing, pronunciation and vocabulary (which contained a ton of Polish, Latin and Turkish influences, not seen in Russian)
- "Ukraine has little history": Ukraine has very rich ancient history (Tripolye culture, Bronze Age, Scythians, Greeks), it was the center of Kievan Rus in the early medieval era instead of Russia, it was a huge part of Poland - Lithuania, and since 16th century Cossack leaders and states and very strong Ukrainian identity emerged. Certain Cossack states were also independent or highly autonomous for 100 - 150 years. And then as a part of Russian and Soviet empires...
- "What have Ukrainians ever done for us?" a ton of top tier "Russian" or "Soviet" famous people, scientists etc were actually Ukrainian. Ukraine was super important for Eastern Europe, Russian military relied on Cossacks (Napoleon feared them), they have settled Siberia etc. Ukraine had flourishing higher education since 16th century, which turned it into the relay of Western civilisation to Russia.
- "Okay but do they have something interesting to offer games like this?"
Cossack culture was a super unique stratocratic, egalitarian society of lightning fast warriors, ruled to a large degree by a military democracy and accepting refugees wanting to be free. Cossack armies (usually given as a military unit to Russia) were very powerful, as I said, and you could find a lot of unit diversity within them, not being limited to one generic unit. Architecture, music and art were very distinctively different from Russia and Poland. And as I said, the image of brutish warriors collides with the flourishing of education under their rule. They also had many powerful personalities leading them, so they are not only limited to Bogdan Khmelnytsky but have several other candidates, such as Ivan Mazepa for example.
Also Ukrainian people would love to appear as a separate, respected nation in a game like this, so it would be a nice gesture.
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Usually I have advocated for Kievan Rus instead, but then I have realized that 1) It doesn't represented Ukraine at all, 2) It really collides with Russian city list and stuff, 3) Ukrainian civ would be far more spectacular and interesting and 4) Regarding delicate political stuff, Ukrainians themselves wouldn't necessarily be happy when presented as "the exact same people as Russians, under one umbrella"
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