1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Ukrainian Revolution master thread

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Winner, Feb 24, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Messages:
    27,947
    Location:
    Brno -> Czech rep. >>European Union
    Okay, those of you interested in a bit less trollsome discussion about the events in Ukraine, please come here. Let's discuss what has happened, why, and what is going to happen next. No debate about "fascism" and especially ANY MENTION OF POLAND except in the context of recent events is allowed.

    Let's start with a bit of news that I predicted yesterday:

    So, what has happened until now?

    - Yanukuvych has been impeached by the Parliament (legitimately). He most likely attempted to flee Ukraine, but failed. Now he says he won't leave and refuses to recognize anything the Parliament in Kiev says.
    - New unity government is forming in Ukraine to prepare early elections in May.
    - Both EU and Russia claim they are committed to a territorially unified Ukraine. However, Russia is in talks with the Crimean separatists and likely also preparing other contingency plans.
    - Some eastern regions of Ukraine refuse to recognize the power shift and are calling for "federalisation" of Ukraine, meaning self-rule with no regard to the rest of the country.

    What next?
     
  2. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Freedonia
  3. keli

    keli Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    449
    Location:
    Bp.
    Source? Other than how prime minister Viktor Orbán is trying to reach out to Russia nowadays there is no evidence that would suggest Yanukovich could pass the border of the Schengen Area and seek asylum in Hungary
     
  4. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    54,542
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    Maybe Orbán has something to sell which will help break a bit of the supposedly impregnable wall.
     
  5. CavLancer

    CavLancer This aint fertilizer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    4,298
    Location:
    Oregon or Philippines
    Who is who doesn't matter does it? What is where does. This situation is providing all the pretext the Soviets ever needed to roll their tanks and Putin, ex KGB, deeply regrets the loss of the empire, yes? My question is, why hasn't Putin rolled the what? Where are the Russian armored divisions?
     
  6. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Messages:
    27,947
    Location:
    Brno -> Czech rep. >>European Union
    What will be interesting to follow is the reaction of the more Maidan-sceptical regions. If they just give up and recognize the authority of the central (revolutionary) government, there will be some source of accommodation.

    If the new government is actually required to bring them back into the fold by force, that may cause some friction.

    Crimea has the potential to ignite a larger military confrontation, it being the most hardcore pro-Russian region.
     
  7. bhsup

    bhsup Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    30,387
    I could use some clarification by folks in the know. I know there was talk of restoring a previous Constitution and I am guessing this is why, but...

    So Yanukuvych was President, but Tymoshenko was Prime Minister and at the time was the top dog. Did some Constitutional change move them from a parliamentary system to a Presidential one, or has it always been a mix of the two and Yanukuvych just absorbed some PM powers into the Presidency or... what?

    EDIT: And, of course, how will this affect what happens in the future? Is that deal to roll back the Constitution still in effect, and if so just what changes will that make?
     
  8. CavLancer

    CavLancer This aint fertilizer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    4,298
    Location:
    Oregon or Philippines
    Yes, yes indeed.
     
  9. Mechanicalsalvation

    Mechanicalsalvation -

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2008
    Messages:
    7,072
    Location:
    -
    Hats off for the Maidan protesters!!! Yanukuvych is political corpse. However the situation in spite of what has been achieved seems to be still very challenging. What matters is if most of the powerful oligarchs will join on the new pro-democratic and pro-national change since they have the most corrupting potential. Russia is another question and in my secret dreams I hope for some kind of change within Russia as well. Russia (Putin) has failed to keep Ukraine under its control and eventually will fail to supress its own citizenry as well.
     
  10. Arwon

    Arwon

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Messages:
    17,377
    Location:
    Canberra
    Why did the weirdos on CFC turn this into a left-right thing? It didn't really come across as such from here.
     
  11. nc-1701

    nc-1701 bombombedum

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    4,025
    Location:
    America
    I'm most interested to see if there is going to be some kind of split with the East (especially Crimea), and if there will Russia provide them with military support? Also if Crimea does successfully withdraw from the Ukraine will it become independent or join Russia?


    Spoiler :
    I would love to know the answer to this as well, but discussing probably runs the risk of ruining this thread as well :(
     
  12. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    54,542
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    If Crimea goes it will take half of the rest of Ukraine with it anyway (Donetsk and other bordering regions).

    I hate to say this, but it all seems to be far from over for the people of that country. The situation sucks.
     
  13. Azale

    Azale Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Messages:
    18,723
    Location:
    Texas
    I've been spending way too much potential homework time on catching up on Ukraine. I agree, there is not much of a left-right dimension unless maybe you're using it as a lens to analyze causes. The left is not really there on the ground and its not obviously not embodied in the EU or Russia.

    There have been claims that much of the brawn in the protest movement has been supplied by far right nationalist groups like Sovoboda (sp) & Right Sector. This observation apparently is a political statement to some. I won't bring it up again since I don't want to derail this thread. The composition of the anti-government coalition will matter even more in the coming weeks and we can talk about it then I guess.
     
  14. LamaGT

    LamaGT Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,107
    Location:
    Turin, Italy
    "cause some friction" :lol:
    The moment they start pulling nationalistic crap on them they will cease to recognize them as authority, and then the separation will happen. It's still my hope that Timoshenko/Yatsenyuk/Klitchko are not that f*cking stupid, but you never know.
     
  15. Yeekim

    Yeekim Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,994
    Location:
    Estonia
    Well, what would qualify as "pulling nationalistic crap" in this context?

    Also, this thread has prompted me to change my signature.
     
  16. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    11,522
    That would be the most stupid thing they could do in current situation. But after they cancelled the law about regional languages, I think they can do something like that.

    BTW, Russia has called off ambassador from Ukraine today.
     
  17. Aleksey_aka_al

    Aleksey_aka_al Smiley

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,436
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Moscow, USSR
    Okay.

    Those militants of renovated Ukrainian Insurgent Army intimidate people telling them that they will kill them if they speak Russian or won't move away. Deputies being stoned or being elected by those militants now revoke the status of Russian and are going to ban it.

    There's a hearsay that those militants stopped a bus from the country you can't mention here in any way and forced the passangers to shout "Hail Ukraine! Hail Heroes!" under the threat to put them "w pechku" – into an "oven" like the original Ukrainian Insurgent Army did to Jews and Poles and other ethnicities.

    I am sure now that Winner is a true example of this ideology he denies to debate about here, since he's so diligent in distracting from it and censoring it.
     
  18. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    43,820
    Location:
    up yours!
    It's obvious that it's a fight between the people on the lefthand side of the map and those on the right-hand side.
    What other languages are/were protected by law? Don't the laws of the provinces and autonomous republics still stand?
    Does Putin have any plans to send a new ambassador?
     
  19. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    11,522
    All languages of minorities, such as Romanian, Tatar, Moldavian, etc. The law was giving some additional preferences ("regional" status) to languages spoken by >10% minorities. Now it's cancelled and as far as I understand, provinces have no right to regulate such things by themselves. Also, crowds of "revolutionaries" are destroying monuments to Soviet soldiers. Very wise and friendly actions of new authorities, what can I say.

    The ambassador was called off, not replaced. This is a diplomatic move, I guess Russia will have to send ambassador back there eventually, when the situation changes.
     
  20. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    43,820
    Location:
    up yours!
    Did Russian get such a status? or is it co-official with Ukrainian?
    But will Russia send the same ambassador back to Ukraine, or will they change him? A change in ambassadors usually means a change of policy, might be a sign of rapprochement or of a hardening stance.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page