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Ukrainian Revolution master thread

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Winner, Feb 24, 2014.

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  1. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    Well, it wasn't an invitation for a flamewar and you basically understood it as I meant it. Why is it necessary to constantly bring up old glories (and old wounds)? Are the people so hung up on the past that using this rhetoric and symbolism remains a viable way of manipulating them?

    To me, the Russian reactions to the events in Kiev border on absolute hysteria. To a foreigner like me, the blanket denouncements of the protesters/rioters/demonstrators as "fascists" (with all the WW2 connotations that word has, especially in Russian) are completely out of this world. The fact that people actually buy that is alarming.
     
  2. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    BTW, I'd ask all debaters here to kindly STOP POSTING SO MANY YOUTUBE VIDEOS/IMAGES. Videos and pictures aren't arguments and they pollute this thread when used excessively.

    Thank you.
     
  3. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

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    It's not. May be it wasn't such a bright idea to touch language-related laws and old monuments? Maidanist rhetorics ("Russia is source of all our troubles", "Occupational regime of Jews and Moscals") doesn't help either.
     
  4. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    It's amazing how you are perfectly capable of filtering out 99% of what Maidan is about and getting hung up on the 1% that fits into your confirmation bias.
     
  5. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    That is a mirror on the wall, btw :D :mischief:
     
  6. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

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    I merely had an opportunity to watch live video from there.
    And happen to understand their language. Both of them.
     
  7. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    Yeah, I've seen plenty of Czech TV reports based on the monitoring of Russian mass media. The level of hysteria they instil in the Russian-speaking population is disgusting.
     
  8. Aleksey_aka_al

    Aleksey_aka_al Smiley

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  9. LamaGT

    LamaGT Chieftain

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    It's amazing how you can filter out 100% of the anarchy that's happening just to keep believing what Saint Joseph is saying :lol:
     
  10. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

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    May be, I don't watch Russian state TV channels.
    I watched Espreso TV
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espreso_TV
    They broadcasted everything, without much censorship. Very informative, if you understand Ukrainian.
     
  11. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    So is Ukraine moving towards an actual partition? :(

    It does echo a bit the other historical risk of total collapse of the ottoman empire, and then a partition happening in some slavic country (in 1772, and more crucially in 1793, after the Russian-Austrian alliance altered) instead.
     
  12. ReindeerThistle

    ReindeerThistle Zimmerwald Left

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    Ukrainian-like situation impossible in Belarus

    Good to know...
     
  13. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    No. It's not even in Russian interest to actually break up Ukraine.

    No, it doesn't.
     
  14. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Chieftain

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    Belarus is stable and contrary to common perception, actually booming since the end of the Cold War till today.

    A Ukraine-like revolution seems for the time being, really unlikely in Belarus.

    It won't it looks like so far, but the real question is if actual partition or division is preferred?

    I'm of the opinion that what will follow Maidan 2014 is another interim period of relative peace for a decade or so until some new events spark up a new revolution. The problem is systemic in Ukraine, two large parts of the country have very different and ingrained visions for the country that involves two different and contradictory geopolitical spheres.
     
  15. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    Meh, I think the differences are overblow. I suspect that if I asked "who wants to have less corruption, more jobs, higher salaries, better state services and in general a better living standard", the differences in responses between West and East Ukrainians and/or Ukrainian and Russian speakers would be minimal.

    If we filtered out all the parasitic rhetoric, Ukrainians would have pretty much the same wishes and desires concerning the future of their country.
     
  16. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton How much Parmesan to put on your umbrella?

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    Yeah, the trouble after the Orange Revolution was that this revolution didn't end the kleptocracy and corruption.
    But people seem to have learned and right now the change seems more fundamental this time than back then.
    Since the end of the Cold War seems not very faithful to the truth.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus#Economy
     
  17. Aleksey_aka_al

    Aleksey_aka_al Smiley

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    The upper is Belarus, the lower is Russia. Socialist state vs. the capitalist one.

    The commenter jokes: "But our grass is greener!"
     
  18. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

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    http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2014-02-26/kremlin-orders-test-of-combat-readiness-in-west
     
  19. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton How much Parmesan to put on your umbrella?

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    I'd think that size of infrastructure and corruption account far better for the street than the socialism-capitalism dichotomy.
    Belarus may have its own corruption, but it probably doesn't beat Russia.
     
  20. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    As well as 7 homosexual diffusion squads.
     
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