Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Guandao, Oct 15, 2017.
Sun Tzu is already in Civ VI.
I haven't been following this thread in detail, so excuse me if these names are already in here somewhere, but I didn't see them on first pass. Since my field is military history, they are all 'military related':
John Churchill, Duke of Marlborough - arguably the best general England ever produced: never lost a battle or a siege
Dmitrii Donskoi - savior of Muscovy at Kulikovo Field
Anton Suvorov - in his 70s led an army right through the Alps and, unlike Hannibal, came out with the army intact: In his 70s, was still beating the Revolution out of the French in 1800!
Eugene of Savoy
Maurice de Saxe - had one of the best military quotes of all: "It is not the big armies that win battles: it is the good ones."
George H. Thomas - the best general of the US Civil War on either side: nobody knows it, because he was a Virginian who stayed loyal to the Union, so his own people disowned him. He virtually invented the modern US Army staff, combat engineers, intelligence department, and on the three occasions that a Confederate Army was driven off the field in rout during the war, Thomas was in charge of the attacking troops all three times. He was the 'Rock of Chickamauga' all right, but the rock tended to whack you in the head...
Hermann Hoth - considered the German Army's best tactician in WWII
Ivan Chernyakovskii - the youngest Army Group commander in any army in WWII
and the WWI poets, like
- they should be out of copyright by now.
Unfortunately, Siminov's "Wait For Me", the most powerful single piece of literature to come out of WWII, is still in copyright (just barely)
- This is a 'trick' entry:
Daniel Butterfield - as a Union general, he wrote a bugle tune called "Butterfield's Lullaby", now known as "Taps" - try to find a more recognizable piece of music in the world today...
H.P.Lovecraft and Isaiah Berlin for Great Writers!
Have to agree, Lovecraft should be a Great Writer (and hearing Sean Bean read about Cthulhu would be AMAZING).
Also, John Steinbeck.
And of course, (this can be taken however seriously you wish) Dr. Seuss.
When they announced Australia to be added, I immediately thought "Steve Irwin - Great Scientist". He's a naturalist, close enough.
And though he's not a military man, Ned Kelly passed through my head for Great General.
Oliver Cromwell would make another Great General, if he's not already in there.
I also think a Great Merchant could be the late Satoru Iwata, since, let's face it, video games (and Nintendo especially) make a lot of money. A game developer Great Merchant might even provide a new, unique amenity in "Electronics" or something. (NOTE: I would've suggested Shigeru Miyamoto, but Civ wisely plays it safe by only using deceased figures (I think). That being said, Mr. Iwata only passed away in 2015, so it might be a bit too soon to consider this idea.)
WAIT, I think I just came up with the perfect, and fortunately, still living, substitution: Sid Meier. Do you think he'd agree?
Was Lovecraft the one who wrote racist anti-Asian stories? He looked like McLovin from Superbad (His face reminds me of that actor). I can't add Isaiah Berlin as a Great Writer since his writing surely has a copyright. He died in 1997.
Steinbeck has a copyright. Same with Dr. Seuss.
I'm hesitant to add Ned Kelly as a Great General, since he was a Criminal outlaw.
Adding Sid Meier would be a little too tongue-in-cheek. Would he be a Great Merchant?
More like just outright racist in general haha. He's very strange. His works does have a very impactful effect on literature though, introducing new concepts that can be expanded endlessly.
Also Kiichiro Toyoda and Enrico Dandolo (until we get Venice as a civ again lul) for Merchant, Jebe for General, Mahan, Benson and Fletcher for Admirals!
I had pictured Meier as a Merchant, yes. I figured any merchant who developed games, TVs, etc. would add Electronics as a unique luxury (ala Toys); Steve Jobs could be one, too.
And yes, it's very tongue-in-cheek, but that's what makes it great. I kinda wonder if he'd find it funny.
Admittedly, Kelly is a controversial figure. Though he did break the law, he was also sort of a Robin Hood figure.
What about Bram Stoker?
Yes, Bram Stoker is acceptable. He might already be on the list. I need to double check.
EDIT: he's already on the list.
A lot of scientists have testified over the years that being exposed to science fiction in their 'formative years' led them into their chosen fields. In fact, there was a book I'm Working on That written by one W. Shatner showing all the things just on Star Trek that influenced scientists and engineers to develop new devices (cell phones, tablets, talking computers, and DARPA, I have it on good authority, is working on the 'Holodeck').
The problem is, just about all of the Golden Age of Science Fiction 'hard science' science fiction writers haven't been gone long enough for their material to be out of copyright restrictions. Jules Verne and H.G.Wells might serve, but a better candidate would be John W. Campbell, the editor of "Astounding Science Fiction" magazine for decades. His own writing was very good, but his massive contribution was that he stimulated and encouraged and helped develop most of the Grand Masters of 'hard' science fiction: Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, Ted Sturgeon, Gordon Dickson, Randall Garrett, Mack Reynolds, Paul Anderson - all the highly influential writers of the 1940s through the early 1970s.
The point is that Campbell would be a writer/entertainer who also gives a Science Boost or Bonus.
In a similar vein (sorry about that!) Bram Stoker should give some kind of additional Entertainment or Great Writing Bonus because his depiction of Vampires in general and Vlad Tepes ("Dracula') in particular spawned thousands and thousands of imitators, right down to the present day, in books, movies, TV, graphic novels, etc.
I'm not sure if Campbell can be a Great Writer, since he died in 1971. Usually the copyright lasts for 70 years after the person's death.
I'm going to eventually take all of your suggestions regarding the Great People's bonus/or abilities and add it to the wishlist, so keep on suggesting them.
I'm a bit bummed out that the first expansion will add no new Great People. Perhaps, they never will add anymore.
I understand that perfectly. Reason I suggested Campbell as an alternative is that it is not his writing that is his Great Work, but his Editorial Encouragement to a host of other writers across an entire genre of fiction which has had immense effects on the development of technology since his time. The real problem is that the writers and writing he encouraged is itself all still under copyright, but I was hoping that by addressing it 'once removed' so to speak, we could get around that...
How about making Atilla a Great General?
There is a general problem with Generals who are also Heads of State: does the game keep them as Civ Leaders, or 'reduce' them to Great Generals?
Unfortunately, if you are going to have a Hun Civilization (almost an oxymoron, since the historical Huns made no real permanent settlements, and certainly no cities) you don't have a lot of choices for the Leader of that Civ, so Attila is not likely to be available as a Great General. Similar problems arise in making, say, Friedrich II ('The Great') of Prussia a Great General - he was one, but he's also one of a handful of really good Alternate Leaders for Germany.
What we really need is a mechanism for making the Civ Leader a General, as can be done in Europa Universalis. Of course, in that game, you then risk getting your leader/general killed in battle, which doesn't work very well in Civ given the Immortal Leaders With Bonuses this game has.
Perhaps, only certain Leaders can be 'converted' into Great Generals, with special bonuses as generals, but as long as they are Great Generals, the Civ loses any special Leadership Bonus from them. In this case, it makes perfect sense that Alexander III of Macedon, Napoleon I of France, Attila of the Huns, even Theodore Roosevelt of the USA could all be 'Great' Generals, whereas Catherine the Great of Russia, Louis XIV of France, Pericles of Athens, or John Curtin of Australia are hard to imagine giving any army they commanded any kind of a Bonus compared to their abilities in other aspects of Civ Leadership...
Well, we already have several Great Generals in Civ6 that were leaders in previous Civ games, or could potentially be a Civ leader.
I'm not keen on seeing the Huns added in Civ6. I believe Scythia fills their niche as the ancient horserider Civ.
Much as I love playing the Pastoral Horse-Culture "Civilizations" like the Lakotah, Commanche, Hun, Scythian, Mongol, etc. as long as Civ is not going to model the real differences in their cultural and technological development from 'normal' sedentary Civs, then you are right: Seen One Supposedly Pastoral Horse-Riding Civ With a Fake City List, Seen 'Em All...
How come we don't have Du Fu as a Great Writer here yet?
And you can add Josef Čapek as a Great Artist. He was the older brother of Karel Čapek, and actually he is the one who invented the word "robot". And since he died in 1945, there should be no worry about the copyright.
How about Ouyang Xiu?
What's up with his Wiki page? Something about Copyright....
Here's the article with the previous text: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ouyang_Xiu&oldid=813890870
Please link the regular article, because the copyright issue would be resolved.
Maria Quintéria was a prominent figure in the Brazilian war of independence, she was the first woman to serve as a military unit in Brazil. She has been recognized as "Brazilian Joan of Arc". I think she's interesting enough to be a great general.
Separate names with a comma.