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UN Global Commission: Drug War a Failure

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by civver_764, Jun 2, 2011.

  1. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    Very simply: the brain is the only thing that separates human beings from animals. Therefore......

    DON'T SCREW WITH THE BRAIN. Anything that screws up the brain is BAD.
     
  2. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    This is supposed to make sense right? Because I don't see anything in here that relates to prohibition, just some ranting about the misguided belief that all drugs cause brain damage.
     
  3. Dawgphood001

    Dawgphood001 The Professional Poster

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    Human beings are animals, derp.

    Secondly, there's a lot more legal substances out there that "screw up" the brain a lot more than illegal ones.

    Thirdly, do you really think prohibition at all lessens the availability of drugs that "screw up" the brain? After 40 years of this nonsense, you really think it's had any effect at all?
     
  4. Wolfbeckett

    Wolfbeckett Jerkin' and nonsense.

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    Shhhhhh, you hush with your logic. Some people are happy as long as they have the illusion that something is being done, whether or not any results are being seen. Don't drag people out of their shell, it's rude!
     
  5. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    I can.

    At the highest level, I think its control. That's the reason for the majority of laws, and I think its applicable to politicians here as well. Maybe there's a few guys who have other reasons (Though if this is so, its misguided) but for the most part, its control, at least from the top.

    For the majority of people, I think its simple acceptance of what they've been taught, coupled with a total inability to back yourself up with stats in an RL conversation. There's a reason I absolutely do not discuss drug-related issues with most people IRL.

    For some people, its moral reasons. I know people who I doubt would have much of a problem with laws against premarital sex (I've never asked them, amazingly these people are people I DON'T talk politics with) so no doubt they'll support laws against drugs! They think the government should protect people from themselves.

    So that mostly does it; either a desire for power, a desire to "Protect people" or a misunderstanding of stats. At least for the weaker drugs, there are good reasons to ban Heroin!
     
  6. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    Did I say "brain damage"? No. Drugs don't (only) cause brain damage. They screw with the brain in other ways as well. They cause a perfectly normal brain to start acting abnormally. The neurons fire differently. Thought processes work differently. People under the influence think thoughts and do things they would not do when sober. No physical damage is done, but the brain malfunctions until the drug wears off. That's a bad thing.

    Here's how my last post related to prohibition (it was there--you simply missed it): my last post was the reason why drugs should be banned. Drugs should be banned because they're bad. Why are they bad? Because they mess up a person's most important body part. <insert obvious double-entendre here>

    No, we definitely are not.

    You are absolutely right. Legal drugs screw up the brain a lot more than illegal ones. Tobacco and alcohol kill around a quarter million people a year in the United States. Each. Heroin only kills 2,000 to 3,000 people a year.

    What does that actually mean......? It means the Drug War works. Ban a drug, it kills far fewer people.

    Yes. See above. Legal drugs kill a lot of people each year; illegal ones don't (even when the death toll from the drug violence in the U.S. is added in). This nonsense definitely has had a positive effect.
     
  7. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Have you ever said anything that's true?
    Moderator Action: Trolling
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

    Kingdom: Animalia
    Phylum: Chordata
    Class: Mammalia
    Order: Primates
    Family: Hominidae
    Tribe: Hominini
    Genus: Homo
    Species: H. sapiens
     
  8. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    Well I'm not a plant, fungus or a lichen
     
  9. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    You could be a Supox. :D

    No, you're not a plant, and yes, we're descended from animals. Nevertheless, we're far removed from them.
     
  10. Dawgphood001

    Dawgphood001 The Professional Poster

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    Marijuana messes with the brain far less than heavily prescribed anti-depressants, many of which are implicated as the main cause of suicide for many people. Not to mention alcohol, which is perhaps the single most destructive drug that people can consume, even ahead of heroin. Marijuana is also not even as addictive as coffee, let alone tobacco and, yes, alcohol.

    This is besides the fact that virtually everyone ingests a "drug" on a daily basis. For some, it's coffee. For others, it's prozac, or beer, or ciggies, or whatever. It boggles my mind how we have hundreds, if not thousands of "legal", regulated drugs but 10-15 "illegal" ones that are somehow unable to be regulated like the legal ones.

    The drug policies of The United States are ineffective and hypocritical.

    We come from nature, like animals.

    And yes, our behavior is ultimately animal.

    What you fail to see time and time again is that every inquiry has shown when drugs are legal/more tolerated that usage, addiction, and disease caused by drug use goes down, along with usage.

    What this shows, is that drugs aren't that popular to begin with, but that making them illegal encourages their use by paradoxically making them more available.

    That's not to mention that violence goes down, taxpayer money wasted goes down, prison cells wasted going down...

    How nice of you to disregard all the death and horrible destruction going on in Mexico because of our nice little "war". Funny how the drug usage rates, and drug availability of just about every drug is going down, along with prices. Also funny how no matter how many drug lords we capture or kill, there's always a willing and ready replacement, usually one who's more violent than his predecessor.

    That's because there's a demand in the United States for drugs is unlike any other on the planet (USA #1:yeah:). We snort half of the world's cocaine, and just about half of all Americans have tried marijuana at least once in their lifetime. Americans, it seems, really like to get high. And no matter how many weed/coca/poppy plants we destroy abroad, or how many meth/ecstasy labs we raid, there will always be more ready to be sold, because there will always be a user to pay for it.
     
  11. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    Not really. It usually involved great feelings of pleasure. That's like, a good thing man.

    You already said "no physical damage is done" so your point about them messing up the brain doesn't make much sense. And even if they do, so what? People shouldn't be allowed decide how to treat their brains?

    There is not a single shred of evidence to suggest that. Heroin, cocaine, etc. killed far less people before they were illegal.
     
  12. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    YES. I understand you perfectly. The legal drug kills more people than the illegal one.

    Meaning the Drug War prevents people from getting killed.

    You're arguing a moot point here. We're not animals; that's my line and I'm sticking to it. Suppose, however, that I had instead typed in "what's the one thing that separates us from the other animals"? The answer remains the same either way:

    The Brain. Hence: don't screw with the brain.

    Yup. I fail to see it because it's not there. I've researched this angle exhaustively (the Drug War used to be one of my favorite topics). The evidence for your claim is simply not there. Though the evidence against your claim is pretty sketchy.

    Thank you. I disregard said violence because the only control we have is over the total body count. Either X number of people are killed by legal drugs, or Q people are killed by illegal drugs. I would gladly reduce both X and Q to zero if I could, but there's simply no way to do it. The only control we have is in choosing whichever variable is smaller. Which is Q. Tough luck, Mexico.

    No. They should not. Because drugs screw up the thought processes that people use to make such decisions. The brain is the thing we use to deal with everything else in the world--and seeing as how human beings have very little natural armor, poor insulation against heat and cold, very poor natural weaponry, a slow reproductive rate, and a very slow top running speed, the brain is the only reason we're not already extinct.

    DON'T SCREW WITH THE BRAIN.
     
  13. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Basketcase: Ignoring basic biology since June 8th, 2011.:rolleyes:
     
  14. Little Faith

    Little Faith Warlord

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    And in all these millennia of surviving humanity have gotten themselves drunk, high, buzzed etc. Substance abuse is as old as the species (if not older). Pretty much all ancient societies have some kind of ritual use of intoxicants, yet they survived well enough and eventually matured into more advanced societies.
     
  15. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    I went to reform school with many addicts. It wasn't unheard of for kids to sneak out at night, walk 4 miles into town to buy cigarettes & then sneak back.

    I still don't agree with the "disease" label though. Addiction is certainly a problem & I've been addicted to more things than I'd like to mention but calling it a disease is disempowering & within basis, IMO.
     
  16. Mallipeep

    Mallipeep Warlord

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    You are incorrect.

    During the time heroin was legal, it killed lot less people then after it was criminalized
    hence: Drug War kills people.

    Religion messes with the brain ( see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c26s1xQkCLY and other vids like that). So by your logic religion must be banned?

    http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/...udy-confirms-decriminalization-was-a-success/
    http://healthland.time.com/2010/09/09/what-the-u-s-can-learn-from-the-dutch-about-teen-sex/

    ( Media might skew the story, but not the numbers - and numbers say legalized drugs > criminalized drugs)
     
  17. wolfigor

    wolfigor Emperor

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    actually the article itself makes clear that the results are not clear cut...

    some examples:

    There is no control group so it's not possible at all to really demonstrate that the change of policy had any effect at all.
    Even more important, the article doesn't say if the policy went together with a stronger education against drugs (that probably would have a stronger effect than any other policy).


    Again, the policy of drugs decriminalization may not have had any (positive) effect.


    Probably this is the only lesson we can take from the Portughese experiment.
    However, decriminalization of drugs alone is not a solution.

    to be noticed that the decriminalization did not mean that drug addicted went completely unpunished:
    Last but not least, Portugal went decriminalization not legalization of drugs.... there is a difference.
    Decriminalizing means that it's not legal, but it's not a law enforcement priority.
    Most likely decriminalization would only be for small quantities.
     
  18. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    That is NOT TRUE.

    It was February 20th, 1993. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

    Basic biology tells me to slap my girlfriend around occasionally, to keep her scared of me, so she won't mate with other males (as I said earlier on, males of other species already do this). Basic biology tells me to punch anybody who steps onto my front lawn (i.e. crosses my territory). Basic biology tells me to pee on my front lawn so other people won't cross it. Basic biology tells me to kill other peoples' children so their mothers come into heat again, giving me another chance to pass on my genes (again: no joke, this is already practiced in the real world by lions).

    Basic biology can sod off.


    Yeah. That's because people like me were around to do actual work. The human race survived in spite of people who got drunk and/or stoned, not because of them.

    Know why that is? Two reasons: last time heroin was legal in the U.S. (in 1914) only a hundred million people lived in the U.S.; heroin kills more people today because there are more people. Also, methods and technologies were much more primitive back then; recordkeeping was bad, statistics were bad, and medical technology was bad. So the statistics of how many people actually used heroin (and died from it) can't be relied on.

    Now, here's a number from today that will further monkey-wrench your argument: according to the White House Drug Policy offices, usage of cocaine nationwide has gone down 21 percent since 2007--even though U.S. drug policy did not change. So, you post a number that says drug usage went down after that drug was legalized; how do I know that number isn't just a fluke? Been there, researched that. The Drug War works. Just not perfectly (we can't get Q down to zero).

    YES. I am an atheist.

    Betcha didn't see that one coming, didja? :)
     
  19. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    Not really. Ultra-violent males are usually selected out of the gene pool either by being killed themselves (in times past) or being incarcerated so they cannot breed.
     
  20. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    I assume by killing themselves they would have asked to be cannon fodder
     

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