1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

UN Global Commission: Drug War a Failure

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by civver_764, Jun 2, 2011.

  1. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Messages:
    16,397
    Location:
    Canada
    A = Legal drugs hurt/kill hundreds of thousands of Americans each year.
    B = Illegal drugs, which are usually much more potent and dangerous than legal drugs, do not.
    C = the Drug War prevents really dangerous drugs from hurting/killing people--at the hundreds-of-thousands-of-people-each-year level.


    And you're saying A & B -> C

    My logic is a little rusty, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that.
     
  2. Warman17

    Warman17 NES Grandpa

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2002
    Messages:
    7,107
    Location:
    America
    I like how we look back at 20s prohibition with the hindsight to realize how stupid and harmful it was, but for some reason can't apply that logic to today's prohibition.
     
  3. Shaihulud

    Shaihulud Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    3,685
    Location:
    Kingdom of Gore
    I agree with it to an extent, but some drugs should be regulated because of their tendency to be extremely addictive. Regulation and enforcement is a continous process, unlike war, a "policing" action is never finished. A war that never ends and has no clear victory is demoralising, so "War on drugs" should not be used to indicate policing action ad in this sense the UN is right, it is something that cannot be won. I however believe that an extremely draconian aproach to illegal drug use/smuggling definitely reduces the availability of drug on the market, reducing the chances of drug abuses.
     
  4. bathsheba666

    bathsheba666 Fast 'n Bulbous

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    10,012
    Location:
    London
    You're invoking logic, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that.
     
  5. berkut

    berkut Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    292
    Location:
    Brazil
    The war on drugs can only be won by punishing the users. I would aprove forced internment in rehab clinics, and the payment of heavy fines like ten thousant dollars. As long as it's culturaly acceptable, no police will end this
     
  6. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    22,095
    Location:
    Igloo, New Hampshire
    Or, in other words, the "war on drugs" cannot be won.
     
  7. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    22,753
    Location:
    Wherever my name is posted
    This...

    The problem is, most people don't even get caught anyways, so why keep the laws?
     
  8. GamezRule

    GamezRule Inconceivable!

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    Messages:
    8,668
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Michigan
    Quote war. :twitch:

    Lets legalize everything and call it a day.
     
  9. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    22,753
    Location:
    Wherever my name is posted
    I'm not sure about this. While I don't have a problem with allowing someone to destroy their own life with heroin or cocaine, when you throw a family in the mix it becomes very different.

    Thus, I think such drugs should probably not be allowed so that if someone who has kids is smoking cocaine, the government can investigate for the likely case of neglect.

    That said, I support DECRIMINALIZATION of all drugs. Prison for any drug use is simply dumb. Perhaps even make it a secondary offense, period.
     
  10. MjM

    MjM Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,099
    Location:
    California
    Drug use is a health problem, not a criminal one. Until those in charge realize this, the drug war will not end.
     
  11. G-Max

    G-Max Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,556
    I've actually been studying cladistics, and the full breakdown looks more like this:

    Metazoa (AKA Animalia)
    Eumetazoa
    Bilateria
    Deuterostomia
    Chordata
    Craniata (AKA Vertebrata)
    Gnathostomata
    Eugnathostomata
    Teleostomi
    Euteleostomi
    Sarcopterygii
    Rhipidistia
    Tetrapodomorpha
    Tetrapoda
    Amniota
    Theropsida
    Eupelycosauria
    Sphenacodontia
    Sphenacodontoidea
    Therapsida
    Eutherapsida
    Neotherapsida
    Theriodontia
    Eutheriodontia
    Cynodontia
    Epicynodontia
    Eucynodontia
    Chiniquodontoidea
    Mammaliamorpha
    Mammaliaformes
    Mammalia
    Theria
    Eutheria
    Epitheria (probably; Exafroplacentalia could also go here, or no intermediate grouping could be here)
    Boreoeutheria
    Euarchontoglires
    Euarchonta
    Primatomorpha
    Primates
    Haplorhini
    Simiiformes
    Catarrhini
    Hominoidea
    Hominidae
    Homininae
    Hominini
    Hominina
    Homo
    Sapiens

    Now keep in mind that this is like... half of the actual length of the list. For example, there's a bunch of BS in between Tetrapodomorpha and Tetrapoda, and again in between Mammaliaformes and Mammalia. But yeah, humanity's existence as an animal is pretty well-established.
     
  12. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    15,159
    Gender:
    Male
    Sure, but that doesn't change the fact it still has cost us a ton of money we could have spent elsewhere. You'd think when we're apparently so anti-deficit, we'd at least cut this crap out.

    Sure, some would say that could have negative effects outside the deficit reduction but umm... I'll ignore such comments since the same individuals tend to ignore the positive effects of deficit increases in some circumstances.

    Well I could tell you that.

    Well, of course. I believe in negative liberty. But I hold the collective negative liberty to be a bit more valuable than individual negative liberty. So, I'm perfectly content with taking half a million dollars' worth of income and spreading it amongst people who are struggling to feed, clothe, and house themselves and are left to die simply because they can't afford medicine.

    I'd prefer charity do this, but alas, it doesn't. Even with as much as the wealthy give, it's not enough to erase these issues. Especially since it's impossible for everyone to have a job, so just letting people starve makes no sense.

    Tell me about it.

    To be fair, many drugs are worse than alcohol, and also less rooted in our culture, however.

    That being said, marijuana use has become so prevalent that prohibition of that is doomed. Prohibition of cocaine and heroin at least, isn't as much an issue.

    Plus, marijuana's half the Cartels' income, more or less. Legalise it and tear them apart in the process, all without firing a single shot.

    Why do drugs have to be a part of this at all?

    Seek out neglect period, and look for warning signs: Poor school grades, high youth crime rates, etc. Drug addiction would just be one of the warning signs of a neglectful parent.
     
  13. Mango Elephant

    Mango Elephant Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,142
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boise, ID
    If the government took control of the drug trade our economy would get so much better.
     
  14. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    22,753
    Location:
    Wherever my name is posted
    The thing is that its rare to have someone smoking cocaine who's a competent parent.

    So I say this, if somebody is using a hard drug like that, it should be illegal so the government can legally search. Note that this would not be taken advantage of if the person doesn't have a family. Then, if neglect is shown, they either get rehab or their kids get moved somewhere else.
     
  15. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    12,112
    Erm... does that mean that someone who has, say, a vegetable garden over there should fear having the police knock down their door in an investigation over possible tax evasion?
     
  16. amadeus

    amadeus As seen on OT

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    34,058
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Osaka (大阪)
    In the U.S., that's the reason it's illegal to produce your own hard liquor.
     
  17. carmen510

    carmen510 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    8,125
    Location:
    NESing Forums
    Obviously not; it's illegal for the police to go onto someone's private property without a warrant, unless there is an emergency like a robbery or murder. Unless the police have a good reason to suspect you're growing marijuana, they wouldn't be able to search your property.
     
  18. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    15,159
    Gender:
    Male
    Marijuana enjoys a reputation of being easy to grow, but it seems that upon deeper analysis, it is NOT that easy. It actually takes a fair amount of investment in terms of time and skill.

    I'll let others give the precise details, but fears of everyone growing their own pot probably won't be well-founded.

    Never mind, the cottage industry would kill itself off - not everyone's gonna grow a ton if they don't have a market.

    Either way, let's assume everyone grew their own pot(unlikely). We're still not padding the pockets of the butchers of Mexico.
     
  19. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    22,095
    Location:
    Igloo, New Hampshire
    The (legitimate) reason is deterrence. Same as the speeding laws - they don't ticket 1% of speeders, but few people are suggesting doing away with speeding laws. Hell, certain forms of theft (burglary, IIRC) rarely result in arrests, but we wouldn't do away with burglary as a crime.

    The illegitimate reason is to give civil authorities on-scene probable cause and eventually justification for throwing the dregs of society in jail.
     
  20. Dawgphood001

    Dawgphood001 The Professional Poster

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    9,503
    Location:
    541 Oregon
    Which drugs, legal or illegal? Because in recent years deaths from entirely legal drugs have been skyrocketing, along with illegal drugs. So, clearly, these raids aren't protecting anyone.

    Now this is just flatly untrue. Decriminalization and other harm reduction strategies, such as clean needles, have significantly reduced problem drug use and specifically the use of intravenous heroin. It even says this in the report discussed by the OP, which you apparently did not read in all your "exhaustive" research.


    According to the Global Commission on Drug Policy Report (the one discussed in the OP, and located here) the use of cocaine increased worldwide 27% from 1998-2008. So, how is banning something reducing it's usage again?

    Ahh, even though they are both incredibly harmful and incredibly addictive for many people, even more so than heroin and cocaine.

    Or, in the case of a legal, regulated product like cigarettes, they use education and public awareness campaigns to tell people how dangerous it is.

    Oh, this old spiel of yours. I know it may be hard for you to believe this but many people like their guns and their drugs. But, I suppose you can keep grouping people together in broad sweeping statements like that, inaccurate though they may be.

    Since marijuana is essentially harmless, why ban it at all?

    Already has been mentioned in the Global Commission on Drug Policy Report, in which it was concluded that decriminalization and harm reduction reduced problem drug use and drug use rates.

    Actually, this is also wrong. Heroin and Cocaine are both illegal in the Netherlands but they also have harm reduction (clean needles, medically prescribed heroin, etc) which has almost halved the number of heroin users. That's something we definitely don't do over here.

    Nah, it was because people didn't want to continue a failed policy that enriched corrupt bootlegging kingpins.
     

Share This Page