UN Report: The US owes reparations to black Americans for slavery

[Gary Childress]

The United States owes African-Americans reparations for slavery, a recent report by a United Nations-affiliated group said.

The UN Working Group of Experts on People of African Descent said that compensation is necessary to combat the disadvantages caused by 245 years of legally allowing the sale of people based on the color of their skin.

The U.N. group warned that the U.S. has not confronted its legacy of “racial terrorism.”

The report, which is non-binding, specified that reparations can come in a variety of ways, including educational opportunities, psychological rehabilitation, debt cancellation and formal apologies.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/reparations-african-americans-un/

The UN report will probably go over like a lead balloon with many of us here in the US. I admit I'm kind of surprised by it and not entirely sure what to think on the ruling. What do you think? If we are to be decent people, ought we to make amends for past wrongs?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

reparations can come in a variety of ways, including educational opportunities, psychological rehabilitation, debt cancellation and formal apologies

Cue indignant white Americans claiming they have already made more than sufficient such reparations.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

The thing is, all of their recommendations - education, mental health, saying "sorry," are either extremely easy to do, or benefit such a wide array of people that they should be considered politically obvious.

 

[EnglishEdward]

All I get for the UN report is a:

"Http Status Code: 404

Reason: File not found or unable to read file"

Not sure where they get the 245 years from. 1865 less 1776 is 89 years according to my arithmetic.

 

[Lexicus]

All I get for the UN report is a:

"Http Status Code: 404

Reason: File not found or unable to read file"

Not sure where they get the 245 years from. 1865 less 1776 is 89 years according to my arithmetic.

Answer: Subtract 1620 from 1865; slavery existed in North America for 245 years. Write this number on the board, point out that the period of slavery in American history lasted far longer than the period without slavery (thus far).

 

[BvBPL]

Answer: Subtract 1620 from 1865; slavery existed in North America for 245 years. Write this number on the board, point out that the period of slavery in American history lasted far longer than the period without slavery (thus far).

That answer is incomplete as slaves were shipped to Hispaniola as early as 1501.

 

[BvBPL]

That answer is incomplete as slaves were shipped to Hispaniola as early as 1501.

Actually, you’re wrong, BvBPL, as slavery in North America was practiced by the native populations long before Columbus was born.

That’s a good point, BvBPL, and raises the interesting question of the status of the Freedman, the decedents of slaves held by the Cherokee nation and whether or not the Freedman should be considered members of that nation.

Indeed. Of course we have given a form of reparations to Indian nations by permitting them to develop casinos. To the extent that Indian casinos are a form of reparations, one wonders what other creative means could be used to right historic wrongs against disenfranchised populations.

Quite. Of course, the casino idea, or something similar, would not be as effective at addressing the enslavement of blacks in the US as contemporary African-American populations do not have the same interest in tracks of land as African-Americans have some of the lowest rates of real estate ownership of any distinct ethnic group.

Hmmm… I see. So what other creative and meaningful forms of reparations could be used?

 

[Synobun]

Literally no one alive today was involved in slavery, either as a perpetrator or a victim. The concept of Original Sin is a ridiculous one and rarely helps anyone in any meaningful manner.

 

[Leonel]

Literally no one alive today was involved in slavery, either as a perpetrator or a victim. The concept of Original Sin is a ridiculous one and rarely helps anyone in any meaningful manner.

But everyone alive today has benefited from slavery in one way or another. The mere fact that slavery's use in the Cotton Boom that put America on the economic map and was probably the sole reason it is the economic powerhouse it is today is justification enough. Mass produce cotton that attracts foreign investment at bargain rate production costs.

Think of it this way. My grandpa hires your grandpa in Big Corp. Your grandpa works hard enough to make Big Corp the biggest company in the world but because my grandpa was purposefully negligent, your grandpa dies in the machines. Now it's several years later where the company has been passed to my dad then to me. Is your grandpa still not liable for damages and do those damages go to his next-of-kin?

It's not original sin, it's liability. If that's the way we did things, there'd never be another wrongful death suit because the victim isn't alive anymore. Unless the US government of today is not a continuation of the US government back then, the US is still liable for the damages of slavery and will be until it does pay or the current US government collapses and is succeeded by a different system.

 

[EnglishEdward]

That answer is incomplete as slaves were shipped to Hispaniola as early as 1501.

So what, Hispaniola is not part of the United States.

 

[Leonel]

Actually, you’re wrong, BvBPL, as slavery in North America was practiced by the native populations long before Columbus was born.

Actually to call it 'slavery' may not be accurate. The major differences is that when Native American's took 'slaves', they were very often prisoners of war captured after performing a raid or during a raid. Even though they were made to do labor and various other tasks that the warrior they killed did before the raid, they were slowly integrated into their captors tribe before becoming a full member after several seasons for religious reasons at least in the Iroquois tradition.

 

[Synobun]

Think of it this way. My grandpa hires your grandpa in Big Corp. Your grandpa works hard enough to make Big Corp the biggest company in the world but because my grandpa was purposefully negligent, your grandpa dies in the machines. Now it's several years later where the company has been passed to my dad then to me. Is your grandpa still not liable for damages and do those damages go to his next-of-kin?

I don't think people should be rewarded or punished for the mistakes and events that occurred before they were even alive, no.

 

[tetley]

The UN can say what they will, but the Dred Scott case says that slaves are not citizens, and cannot sue. And since the Constitution forbids ex post facto laws, no reparations are needed under the U.S. Constitution. Say what you will about past human rights abuses, but I don't see the legal liability for it.

 

[Lexicus]

Actually, you’re wrong, BvBPL, as slavery in North America was practiced by the native populations long before Columbus was born.

Actually to call it 'slavery' may not be accurate. The major differences is that when Native American's took 'slaves', they were very often prisoners of war captured after performing a raid or during a raid. Even though they were made to do labor and various other tasks that the warrior they killed did before the raid, they were slowly integrated into their captors tribe before becoming a full member after several seasons for religious reasons at least in the Iroquois tradition.

It is certainly somewhat misleading to make these characterizations. These societies had, at best, a loose concept of private property and so you have to be careful with comparisons with chattel slavery that don't take this into account. However, it's worth pointing out that the slaves in the US who were imported from Africa generally started as war captives too.

 

[Leonel]

I don't think people should be rewarded or punished for the mistakes and events that occurred before they were even alive, no.

Who said anything about people being rewarded or punished? I'm talking the US government as a government entity, not white people in general. When there's a lawsuit against a company, it's not targeting directly each individual worker. I'm talking about damages to a family's earning potential. In my analogy, your grandpa is dead and that tremendously impacts your family's earning potential in the future. This can cascade into your father not being able to afford school and ultimately you not going to school yourself.

It is certainly somewhat misleading to make these characterizations. These societies had, at best, a loose concept of private property and so you have to be careful with comparisons with chattel slavery that don't take this into account. However, it's worth pointing out that the slaves in the US who were imported from Africa generally started as war captives too.

Yes, that is a good point. They initially were war captives at the beginning before things got worse.

 

[Hygro]

I don't think people should be rewarded ... for the ... events that occurred before they were even alive

Inheritance tax 100%? Ban private education? Reassign children to parents by lottery? Equalize all wealth and capital every 20 years?

 

[Lexicus]

Yes, that is a good point. They initially were war captives at the beginning before things got worse.

Yeah. The typical feature of the slave is that he/she is completely severed from whatever social ties existed before enslavement (or in the case of people who are born slaves they never get the chance to make any). The sole tie that is recognized by the community is with the master, and the master also generally has the power of life and death.

This is so clearly abhorrent to the social nature of the human animal that various justifications (eg racism) have had to spring up along with slavery to justify it. The contemporary view was that slavery was a humanitarian alternative to just killing everyone you beat in a war.

Every bit of spending in the US economy 'steals' from everyone not directly involved because all spending creates inflation. The government doesn't need to tax white people and give the money to black people at an individual level, so these arguments that say it's unfair to hold people responsible for what their ancestors did just don't cut the mustard with me.

Edit: I like Hygro's approach better though.

 

[Camikaze]

I don't think people should be rewarded or punished for the mistakes and events that occurred before they were even alive, no.

I'm not sure that reward and punishment is the right way to look at it.

Is it punishment to take artwork, which had been expropriated by the German government from a Jewish family, away from the young German who has received it as a bequest from their Nazi grandfather, and is it a reward to return it to the descendants of the Jewish family who were murdered?

 

[ls612]

I'm not sure that reward and punishment is the right way to look at it.

Is it punishment to take artwork, which had been expropriated by the German government from a Jewish family, away from the young German who has received it as a bequest from their Nazi grandfather, and is it a reward to return it to the descendants of the Jewish family who were murdered?

The question is at what point do you stop? In the US (and probably other places but I'm in the US) there is a statute of limitations on claims arising from stolen goods and the like to prevent people from going back forever to try and right every wrong, real or perceived.

 

[Vectors]

Literally no one alive today was involved in slavery, either as a perpetrator or a victim. The concept of Original Sin is a ridiculous one and rarely helps anyone in any meaningful manner.

The effects still persist and near slavery existed long afterwards for Southern blacks