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Unbuyable units

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by CptBadger, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    Certain units are currently only available through events. And some of them I fully agree with. Conquistadors, native mercs, and Royal Artillery, would all theoretically be limited in source.

    However, any individual/entity with enough money could commission or buy a man o war, or contract hessian (or similar) mercenaries. Could we not add these to buy list in Europe, just at a proportionately higher price? If a Ship of the line costs 6k, your first ManoWar could cost 25k. But it doesnt seem realistic that you /cant/ buy it. The colonies /could/ have dumped massive resources into buying or building Capital warships, it just wasnt very cost effective. But I've had games exceeding 200k gold just sitting prior to WoI. Surely I could afford the best?
     
  2. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Yes, those are the "special" / really powerful ones.

    Well, it is easily doable in XML. :dunno:
    (However, some of the "UnitClasses" might also need to be changed. Some "Units" are nation specific for Colonies and King but use the same "UnitClass".)

    But on the other side:
    A) I like that some units are rare, because it is thus more rewarding / special if you get them. It would also "devalue" a lot of flavourable events.
    B) I am not sure if the King would e.g. like to let you buy his Man-O-Wars in "masses".
    C) It would also make the game a bit less challenging in end-game.

    Summary:

    This is definitely not a question of effort or risk. It is actually a piece of cake to do it.
    I am not sure though if it really makes gameplay better in terms of more atmospheric and flavourable.

    It is again just a matter of personal taste. :dunno:
    But if team and community really want it, I don't have any real issue with it either.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
    Krohon likes this.
  3. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Prince Supporter

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    Actually no. The "hessian" mercenaries were not actually mercenaries that would have been available to anyone with money. Using a legal loophole of the time, they were ordinary soldiers that were leant to the british King from the princes of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation (mainly from some of the principalities in Hessia).

    Of course it is. The Manowar is the largest ship available, something like the SuperBattleship ot it’s time - only a handful of places would be able to build those and those are guaranteed to be under the control of an european King who would laugh at the thought to hand over the most powerful toy in his navy to some rich upstart from a colonial backwater at the outskirts of his (or worse - someone elses) empire.

    Some things are not just about throwing money at it. Historically the best colonies in America could hope to build in the games timeframe were frigates. More would require investments, manpower, resources and specialists not available to anyone in America at the time and should take years to build. And at the start of the game not even the thought of their existance should exist as those, just like Ships of the Line were inventions of later centuries.

    On the other hand if your colony has 200k gold just sitting around prior to the WoI then something is wrong - either you play on a difficulty level too easy for you (so that you are not adequately challenged until the WoI) or money is not scarce enough in your game.
     
    Drunk-Monk likes this.
  4. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    I had forgotten about that arrangement behind the Hessians.

    But as far as the ship... a number of European kings faced money woes. They could build the ships, but I guarantee there would be a price they'd be willing to sell at.

    And on that game where I had that money, I played on the massive map scenario, I think it's called amerayca, on I think it was patriot difficulty, marathon speed. I managed to start close to several gold and other bonus resources. Around 1650 I just started saving up to see how much I could rack up. Definitely not a normal game. But I could justify saving up 30, 40k Or even more to buy a warship that can transport units too.
     
  5. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    Once I find the file/figure out how to modify, I could make that change for my own play and I'd be happy. I just havent found that yet lol.

    I'm guessing itll be similar to the SMCol file where you could set what is avail and base price? Hell I found the otherwise unused "teacher" unit that way
     
  6. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    It is mainly CIV4UnitInfos.xml that defines which Units can be bought in Europe or not and also their prices.
    (Please do make a safety copy first.)

    Some Royal Units however are explicity locked for some Colonial Player Types in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml to be acquired by Buying or Immigration.

    It is related to "UnitClasses" used to create Nation Specific Units.
    So more changes might be needed in XMl that can however also cause CTDs if you don't know what you are doing.

    In DLL you can however easily work around it. Worldbuilder can do that as well because it accesses spawning code in DLL directly.
    That is why the DLL-Diplo-Events can still create those "Royal" and other special Units.

    Remark:
    Be carefuly when changing too much in XML if you are not sure what it does. (e.g. do not carelessly remove or rename a UnitType or UnitclassType.)
    Changing a few xml-tags for prices and allowing Units to be bought in Europe is not dangerous though.

    I have absolutely no idea what that file is. :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  7. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    I have no problem with buying them, as long as they're really expensive. That would still keep them 'special'.
     
    CptBadger likes this.
  8. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    Ray, thanks!

    And I meant the file from Sid Meiers Colonization, the original game, where you could modify such things.
     
  9. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Ah ok. :)
    It is simply too long ago to still remember technical details about the original.
     
  10. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

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    I like CptBadger's idea. When your economy improves spending on elite troops would be a good option. I agree the costs should be VERY expensive

    It would make sense to rebalance ship costs exponentially as well. As a starting point the SOTL should be costing about 10x what it does currently. Being able to buy SOTLs for 6k makes shipbuilding pointless and makes all other warships redundant.

    The game should make us work for better ships ie improving infrastructure to build our own, or buying them at GREAT expense from Europe.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020

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