Unconditional base income?

[bhsup]

Of course it is predictable. Why should anyone be paid not to work if they are not at least attempting to gain employment or are disabled or other legit reasons? I did not, you will please note, say nobody should get it. It's just that a blanket "we'll never pester you about what you do, you just get this money regardless" policy is ridiculous.

 

[Borachio]

How do you feel about people who inherit wealth and never do anything?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

@VRWCAgent
Is it so inconceivable that a "everyone-fend-for-his-own"-model is not the one which makes people the happiest?

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Who will work at McDonald's, clean houses, drive buses or take care of elderly if they earn the same as those who get up at 10 and play games all day?

 

[Borachio]

People who find that playing games all day doesn't earn (sic) them the respect of their peers, or self-respect? The same as now, really.

 

[bhsup]

How do you feel about people who inherit wealth and never do anything?

They're not taking my money, so it's not really my business. They may be lazy, but at least it's not on my dime.

@VRWCAgent
Is it so inconceivable that a "everyone-fend-for-his-own"-model is not the one which makes people the happiest?

Did I say everyone? I specifically excluded the disabled, those looking for work (though there should be a limit there,) and so forth. As far as what makes people happy, there is nothing wrong with putting in a day's work. If someone is soooo unhappy about that, I really don't care.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

..smoke weed.. or something then.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

@Loppan Torkel
They would not earn the same. Wages re not supposed to be out-lawed.

 

[dutchfire]

Who will work at McDonald's, clean houses, drive buses or take care of elderly if they earn the same as those who get up at 10 and play games all day?

It was my impression that under this law, someone working at the McDonalds would get:
basic income + McDonalds wage > basic income
So there's still incentive to work at McDonalds.

 

[Borachio]

They're not taking my money, so it's not really my business. They may be lazy, but at least it's not on my dime.

This is really a very narrow notion of money, though, isn't it?

Where do you think money comes from?

If someone's parents made a lot of money by selling your parents (and a great many other people too) goods, then the money they've inherited is money that you haven't inherited.

Still, I suppose it's a matter of how unjust you perceive capitalism to be.

Do you just say "Ah, those Rothechilds! Good luck to them all!"?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Did I say everyone? I specifically excluded the disabled, those looking for work (though there should be a limit there,) and so forth. As far as what makes people happy, there is nothing wrong with putting in a day's work. If someone is soooo unhappy about that, I really don't care.

I am was talking about the gneral idea, the rule rather than its exceptions.
Moreover, there are many jobs where it is IMO only natural to dread them. Why is there nothing "wrong" about that?

 

[Loppan Torkel]

It was my impression that under this law, someone working at the McDonalds would get:
basic income + McDonalds wage > basic income
So there's still incentive to work at McDonalds.

No, I don't think that's correct. Grisu explained it. Or did I get it wrong?

 

[bhsup]

I have no idea who the Rothechilds are, but I wish Bill and Melinda the very best.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

@Loppan Torkel
You did.
And it is really as simply as it gets.
UNCONDITIONAL income
That means unconditional. It matters none whatsoever what you do or who you are. Weather you are a slacker or a top manager.

 

[dutchfire]

They believe that with a basic income of SFr2,500 ($2,730) – children would receive a quarter of that – everyone could live in “dignity and freedom”, without being plagued by existential fears.

Organisers estimate costs at SFr200 billion a year.

200 billion a year at 2500 a month gives you 7 million inhabitants, which seems a fair guess for Switzerland, so I would think that everyone gets the money.

 

[Borachio]

everyone could live in “dignity and freedom”, without being plagued by existential fears.

This, for me, is the important bit.

And it's what humanity has long been moving towards, I think.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Yeah, I mean if this would actually work, there just is no acceptable argument against it from what I can see.
If the price to pay is a lack of meager jobs society at large doesn't really need in the first place, that is a win in itself right there.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

I guess. Thanks. It's why I asked to have it clarified at the start.

The government is practically printing money then? Everybody gets the same amount and everybody pays for it.

 

[bhsup]

there just is no acceptable argument against it from what I can see.

There is just no acceptable argument for my tax money that is forced from me to be used to pay for people to play on their gaming consoles all day or meditate or smoke pot in the park or whatever else lazy hippies do.

I guess that's the two sides to this?

 

[Borachio]

But what's the alternative? How much of your tax dollars go to finance an expensive means tested system which can be easily defrauded by these same pot smoking lazy hippies and single mothers and gangstas?

They're going to get the money anyway. But at present you have to pay for a vast bureaucracy on top, to administer the schemes, as well.