Under Siege: The Wars of Israel

[PinkyGen]

Really, the American government gave it during the war? I thought it come from sources in Europe like Czech. and such. It seems odd we sold such weapons when there was a big argument in Truman's cabinet over whether to even recognize Israel's existence.

Learn something new everyday.

 

[Leglaen]

From the information I have, at the beginning of the '48 War, the Israelis had no armor and only a few Piper Cub aircraft that were mainly used in the Negev for communications. They were forced to create homemade armored cars and such. After the first truce, they received three Messerschmidt aircraft from the Czechs(which bombed Cairo and Damascus) and were able to create an armored battalion(7th or 8th, I think) that was used in the north. It consisted of three Cromwell tanks that had been stolen and French tanks that had been captured from the Arabs.

My source on this is Chaim Herzog's The Arab-Israeli Wars.

 

[insurgent]

WWII equipment wasn't hard to obtain in the late 40's and in fact the Israelis only had 3 Super Shermans at the start of the war, but that number grew rapidly.
True, much equipment came from Czechoslovakia, because Stalin saw a way of destabilising the West, through the support to Israel. Also, that explains the involvements of T-34's.
But the tank unit in the scenario is neither a Sherman, nor a T-34, it is a WWII tank in general.

 

[Bismarck]

Originally posted by Leglaen
From the information I have, at the beginning of the '48 War, the Israelis had no armor and only a few Piper Cub aircraft that were mainly used in the Negev for communications. They were forced to create homemade armored cars and such. After the first truce, they received three Messerschmidt aircraft from the Czechs(which bombed Cairo and Damascus) and were able to create an armored battalion(7th or 8th, I think) that was used in the north. It consisted of three Cromwell tanks that had been stolen and French tanks that had been captured from the Arabs.

My source on this is Chaim Herzog's The Arab-Israeli Wars.

Your information is correct. If you travel on the road to Jerusalem, you can still see the armoured vehicles that Hagganah used to supply the besieged city. Many of them were destroyed in the attempt and were left standing there to commemorate those who died (after being treated with anti-rust paint). They are certainly not tanks -- more like armour-plated vans and trucks.

My grandfather fought in that war and has told me many fascinating stories; for example, the story of how he "nearly" shot down an Arab plane that had been bombing their kibbutz every day. He and his comrade decided to shoot the plane down, so they hid in the underbrush, with a beat-up old machine gun ready, and waited for the plane to dive for the bombing, as it always did. Then, when the plane dove -- their machine gun jammed! By the time they unjammed the weapon, the plane had already flown away.

What struck me most about his stories of the war was its utterly ramshackle and amateurish nature: it was fought piecemeal, on countless fronts; it was very decentralised, and conducted mostly on the initiative of the local commanders in the field; both sides were poorly equipped, the Jews even moreso than the Arabs. The Jews won the war by capitalizing on the Arabs armies' poor organization and discipline, and by countless "stratagems" such as firing the same ****ty piece of artillery from a dozen different positions to give a false impression of superior firepower.

 

[PinkyGen]

Ok, this is picky, but I'll do it anyway. the Old City and the Wailing Wall Wonders should be in East Jerusalem, not West Jerusalem. Until 1967 no Jews were allowed to visit the Old City and the Wall.

 

[insurgent]

OK, so if I made a version 2, I would have to decrease the amount of Israeli armour, especially the WWII armoured units (there aren't that many at start, but you seem to be right). I would have to move the Wailing Wall and Holy City wonders would be moved to East Jerusalem (a slightly goofy mistake... ), and what else?

 

[Case]

Well, I'd apreciate it if you were to mention my name in the credits part of the readme for the couple of my units that you've used [they're credited in the units file, but it would be nice to have it in the readme as well ]

I'd include nukes as well - perhaps the Israelis could get acess to them in the 1973 scenario if the Syrians break through the Golan Heights...

Ship movements also need speeding up. Granted each turn is one day, but movements of 4-6 squares is rather impractical, especially in the 6 Day war scenario when historically the Israeli navy played an important role in the Red Sea theatre.

 

[insurgent]

Readme file with graphics creators... "Check" (sorry)

Limited nuclear variations... "Check"

Ship movement improved... "Check"
I specifically wanted the navies and especially the western to remain an insignificant factor, that's why the movement is so low. But I'll improve it in a v. 2.00.

Sorry about the credits thing, I will add you and the rest of the graphics creators, though I don't understand why you are unstatisfied with it... That is, though, no problem for me, so I don't wish to discuss it.

 

[PinkyGen]

1. Why does IDF militia get the alpine troop movements, but the regular IDF infantry does not? Is it because they carry some heavy weapons, or that the paratroopers are supposed to be the elite troops.

2. I think the paratroopers should be strengthened somewhat. I realize they travel light, but on the other hand, they are supposed to be elite troops, and two paratroopers start the 56 campaign at the Sinai border anyway (though I parachuted them down towards Sharm El Sheikh (mispelled) with airpower to clear the area).

3. Is there a reason why there are always Western Powers in Cyprus and owning a huge fleet that for some reason likes to park off my coast. I sometimes worry that they will attack me.

4. I actually like the fact that there are no nukes. The map is so small, it seems as though their effect would be minor unless there were a lot of them.

 

[insurgent]

Originally posted by Dayan
btw, sorry about all the 'lol' icons in the last few posts iv been in a really funny mood the last few days .

You're not alone! :jump:

Well, it's up to you whether to use the Golani or IDF units from my scen, but there are three Golani units in the UNITS.bmp IIRC, see if you like any of them (the other two are at the bottom of the file). Just use whatever units you think suit with your style the best. None of my scenarios have succeeded in becoming really stylish, but I sure like when they are, and with the help of ANZAC, the last one got quite close...

 

[The Art of War]

Well, I gave in and downloaded the MGE stuff. I downloaded this scenario, and it is great! I love all of them. The hardest for me was the '48 war. Any tips for slowing the onslaught?

Anyway, in the Yom Kippur War, the Israelis actually armed their planes with nukes, which at the time was the popular last ditch effort of the time.

 

[insurgent]

In the 1948 scenario I recommend that you build up your military through buying units, it's much faster and you have enough money (presuming you play as the Israelis). If you do play is them, you should immediately try to gain the initiative, move into enemy territory and force the AI back on the defensive. Try to secure the most vital areas by conquering close Arab cities, and then go for the objectives, which are only the cities of Palestine.

About the nuclear issue, it is my belief that nuclear weapons in general ruin the game play of scenarios and are unrealistic in their effects and use. But I think perhaps I could allow "limited" nuclear capabilities (look above).

BTW, keep FW. Don't play objective scenarios made for FW in the MGE game, it ruins the victory conditions. So keep FW along with MGE...

 

[EmuGod]

Is there a Fantastic World's version of thie scenario? I'd really like to try it and the MGE patch doesn't seem to do anything but take up space on my computer.

 

[The Art of War]

You got the wrong patch for MGE, probably. I did the same thing. Go to the downloads section and click on "Upgrade your Civ2 version to Civ 2 Gold!". It's about 7 files, but its worth it in the end. BTW, you can make an FW folder and an MGE folder so you don't lose your FW capabilities.

 

[EmuGod]

You're referring to Cedric's patch right? That's the one I got. It's 5 files that you're supposed to unzip into your Civ2 directory which I did and they didnt do anything.

 

[Case]

Try the Civ 2 Technical Support Board - Cedric seems to lurk around there waiting to help people

 

[insurgent]

There is no FW version of the scenarios, I meant that you should save the game Civ2 FW. It would be much better was it not for the higher capacity and compatibility of MGE...

 

[EmuGod]

Could the MGE converter allow me to convert the scenario so it would work on FW?

 

[insurgent]

Probably, but then you'd have to cut down the events files... How many of you don't have MGE and only have FW instead?

 

[insurgent]

I just played Siege73.scn as the Israelis and this was the outcome: