Underlying tourism mechanics and culture win?

[Deaga]

I just won a Cultural game as England, but I really have no idea how the whole "international vs domestic tourists" works. Sure, going by the Civ5 approach of "generate as much tourism as you can, amassing all the multipliers you can" worked just fine, but I'd like to know how those are actually calculated.

Is it something along the lines of "culture output generates domestic tourists, while tourism output generates international tourists"? That would be similar do Civ5's approach of "culture is defense and tourism is offense" when it comes to cultural wins. There's also a "lens" option for the map showing how many tourists are at each specific possible location in your empire... So certain locations and attract more tourists? How does that work? As said before, a simple approach worked (spam beach resorts and archeological museums everywhere ), but knowing the underlying mechanics is always nice.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

We're not quite sure.
Based on xml values and some testing

Every 100 culture you make generates a domestic tourist

If you make 150 tourism against someone more than they make against you, one of their 'domestic tourists' is added to your 'foreign tourists' (these stay even if the original civ is eliminated/you lose tourism generating tiles)

 

[Cymsdale]

If you make 150 tourism against someone more than they make against you

What does "making tourism against someone" mean?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

You generate 200 tourism (number at top)
If you look in the cultural victory screen you can see other civs have % modifiers (trade routes, different government, same religion, etc)
So if America has 200 base tourism per turn
+25% to tourism against England
-25% to tourism against Japan

America is sending
250 tourism per turn against England
And
150 tourism per turn against Japan

So if England is sending 100 tourism to America, Then it is 250-100=150 in americas favor...so each turn 1 English domestic tourist is chsnged into 1American foreign tourist

If Japan is generating 450 on America
450-150=300 in Japans favor...so each turn 2 American domestic tourists are changed into Japanese foreign tourists.

Not certain, but that appears to be how it works (more testing is needed)

 

[Deaga]

So you should try to get more tourism against Civs generating more Culture? So you get their tourists for yourself, lowering the threshold needed to win. Is that correct? I was actually sending all of my trade routes to civs with lower culture outputs, thinking it should be "easier" to get tourists from them, which seems true (they should have less tourism too, after all), but lowering domestic tourists from other runaways seems good too. That's nice to know, thanks!

 

[Uberfrog]

Thanks for this! In my latest game I'm safely on the road to a Space Race victory after a rush attack against the Kongo, who were in danger of winning a Culture Victory.

Now my only obstacle is not accidentally winning a Culture victory with my stolen great works and the policy that gives +10 tourism to my many Industrial Zones before I can send the last rocket to Mars!

It's baffling why the Culture victory system is so opaque.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Thanks for this! In my latest game I'm safely on the road to a Space Race victory after a rush attack against the Kongo, who were in danger of winning a Culture Victory.

Now my only obstacle is not accidentally winning a Culture victory with my stolen great works and the policy that gives +10 tourism to my many Industrial Zones before I can send the last rocket to Mars!

It's baffling why the Culture victory system is so opaque.

Civ has always been opaque...Civ6 seem to be the most so far. (In everything, although tourism is its worst part)

 

[Victoria]

Strategy is this

1. Generate lots of culture and great works and look at good wonder/ civic modifiers to help remembering each 100 culture = 1 tourism

2. Be as nice and friendly to every Civ you can, sacrifice deals, even change governments if need be. and this includes the tourism modifiers like opening borders, a trade route, being of the same religion or government. These modifiers stack up.

3. Steal great works, and damage Theater districts, especially of your main culture rivals. use your best spies.

It all sounds simple but there is a fair amount there to keep you busy
Would love ot know the mechanics, working on it

 

[MyOtherName]

The large population base is a key start as theater districts give +2 culture per citizen.

That is (afaik) the yield you get for having a citizen work the tile, not simply for having a citizen in the city.

 

[Deaga]

2. Be as nice and friendly to every Civ you can, sacrifice deals, even change governments if need be. and this includes the tourism modifiers like opening borders, a trade route, being of the same religion or government. These modifiers stack up.

Is this even currently possible with the game in the current state? My experience in all of my games is that everyone simply hates each other. It's not even "oh noes, the AIs hate the player", it's "each AI hates everyone but itself".

Not that it matters too much, as you can still easily get open borders even when unfriendly (just throw some gold into the mix ) and... well, spamming Archeological Museums+Seaside Resorts goes a LONG way. I was also England, so I had super museums. Religion, however, does seem to be a very large modifier and might be worht looking into, although I've generally ignored religion in all of my playthroughs so far too... So I had a -50% with nearly everyone at the end of the game due to differing religions. Still won a bit before turn 300 though, so it was mostly fine I guess.

 

[Victoria]

That is (afaik) the yield you get for having a citizen work the tile, not simply for having a citizen in the city.

Yup, I am a noob

 

[smartcanuck1988]

Does taking in a foreign tourist decrease the number of domestic tourists in that civ? I don't think it does in my game but I could be wrong.

Reason I ask is that wouldn't it theoretically be possible to totally be blocked off a civ or two tourism wise (I.e. No foreign tourists come from that civ) but still win the game because you got huge numbers from the other civs?


Unrelated: I plotted lifetime tourism to visiting tourists from that civ and in my current game the ratio is about 1250 lifetime tourism accumulated for each 1 foreign tourist earned. Not sure this adds anything to the conversation but thought I'd mention it.

 

[MyOtherName]

Unrelated: I plotted lifetime tourism to visiting tourists from that civ and in my current game the ratio is about 1250 lifetime tourism accumulated for each 1 foreign tourist earned. Not sure this adds anything to the conversation but thought I'd mention it.

If nothing else, I was wondering if only the current tourism mattered, or whether history mattered, or a mix of the two. Your quantity seems to indicate only history matters!

 

[Katakanja]

One thing I've noticed that I wouldn't mind having explained to me is why I often seem to have a lower threshold of tourists required to win compared to other civs. For example, on the tourism victory window it will say something like 10/100 tourists required for an AI opponent, whilst for me it will be 34/91 or whatever. If tourism output is what attracts foreign tourists to your lands, what is it that causes the overall total to decrease? A strong culture? Domestic tourists? Or is it just some modifier relating to difficulty?

"making tourism against someone"

I feel like more countries in the real world should use this as a marketing slogan to attract holidaymakers - 'Come to sunny Spain to make tourism against our despicable rivals!'

 

[Cymsdale]

One thing I've noticed that I wouldn't mind having explained to me is why I often seem to have a lower threshold of tourists required to win compared to other civs. For example, on the tourism victory window it will say something like 10/100 tourists required for an AI opponent, whilst for me it will be 34/91 or whatever. If tourism output is what attracts foreign tourists to your lands, what is it that causes the overall total to decrease? A strong culture? Domestic tourists? Or is it just some modifier relating to difficulty?

The number for each civ is the highest of the other civs + 1. So if you have 300 domestic tourists, and are the highest, other civs will need 301. If the next highest civ has 150, then you only need 151.

Domestic tourists seems to be a number that goes up by culture. So culture is essentially a defense against another civ winning a culture victory.

 

[smartcanuck1988]

If nothing else, I was wondering if only the current tourism mattered, or whether history mattered, or a mix of the two. Your quantity seems to indicate only history matters!

I collected the data again at turn 288. I forgot which turn I collected them the first time, but it was around Turn 150 by my estimates. The relationship (slope) between lifetime tourism and foreign visitors seems to stay the same.

Here is the plots of two sets of data from the same exact game:

Spoiler :

Notice how the two trend lines are parallel (slope = 0.0008). It suggests to me that the relationship has not changed over time. It is highly unlikely, but still possible, that during so many turns that the ratio of my tourism per turn vs their tourism/culture per turn has stayed the same, so I'm more willing to think that lifetime tourism matters more than what your actual rate (or their rate) is. And it looks like culture is just there to increase the number of domestic tourists to make your "goal" further away, but it doesn't really affect the movement of tourists per se.

I can't find where the game tells me my "lifetime culture", so the only culture-related data I have is the culture per turn. Plotting that against Domestic Tourists of all the civs doesn't show me any pattern. So again I don't think the rates matter and there are "progress bars" (much like the other mechanics in the game) that need to be filled up to gain +1 of that tourist (be it domestic or foreign).

Edit: the formula FLOOR(LifetimeTourism/1200) gives accurate numbers of foreign tourists. 1/1200 is 0.000833 which fits with the graphs.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Ok...based on that, my theory changes. (The XML says 150 tourism to 'move citizens' and in the test each foreign tourist cost you 1200 in a 8 civ game)


So to get 1 foreign tourist from a civ (and reduce that civ's domestic tourists by 1) you need to accumulate 150*(number of civs in game...not sure if originally or currently) tourism on them.

Which makes sense, because your base tourism is applied all civs in the game...so the more civs there are the harder it is to get 1 tourist from them...because you get one tourist from all of them.

 

[smartcanuck1988]

Ok...based on that, my theory changes. (The XML says 150 tourism to 'move citizens' and in the test each foreign tourist cost you 1200 in a 8 civ game)


So to get 1 foreign tourist from a civ (and reduce that civ's domestic tourists by 1) you need to accumulate 150*(number of civs in game...not sure if originally or currently) tourism on them.

Which makes sense, because your base tourism is applied all civs in the game...so the more civs there are the harder it is to get 1 tourist from them...because you get one tourist from all of them.

That seems accurate to me. Unfortunately my PC is way below the min specs so starting new games with different size maps isnt exactly easy for me. But if others can test that out on their current games after enough tourism has accumulated then that'd be great.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

That seems accurate to me. Unfortunately my PC is way below the min specs so starting new games with different size maps isnt exactly easy for me. But if others can test that out on their current games after enough tourism has accumulated then that'd be great.

If it works, the real issue is how the game handles removing a civ....do you need less tourism to get new tourists from the remaining civ (ie the cost is 150* civs Currently in the game)

 

[dturtle1]

Hi guys, I just won a Culture Victory as Rome on King/Standard/Epic @ turn 396. I was generating just over a 1000 Tourism a turn, generating roughly 1 Tourists a turn against 8 Civs requiring 286 at time of Victory. That sounds roughly like 150*8 as noted. I had 21 Wonders , 3 national parks and 4 Seaside Resorts(Breathtaking), 2 relics, 3 themed Artifact Museums and 2 Un-themed Art Museums. A few Great Writings and a 6 Great Musics. I had Computers and Social Media plus the Govt Policy for both Great Art and Music. Not sure how great the Wonders actually are for Tourism outside of the Culture-Tourism specific ones. The biggest jumps were from the Govt Policies (100% to Art/Artifact and Music) and Seaside Resorts and national parks. I only had 9 Great Works of Art, 9 Artifacts and 6 Music. With National parks i have found it was easiest creating a city from scratch just for them. It is easier than trying to shoehorn 4 tiles within range of a matured City, perfect cities for the Mountain/Tundra edges of your Empire

I believe depending on your Empire you could probably get a Non-Violent(.......) Culture Victory by focusing on Great Works or Tile Improvements. You could probably even get it with just with Relics with Mont St Michel, Reliquaries and enough Cities