Ungrateful AI

[Vulcans]

What is up with these ungrateful AI?

Bismark just wiped napoleon off the map. I have pity on napoleon and come in and destroy the German army, and then liberate Paris. I send in my witch doctors ti resurrect Napoleon from the dead.

Then after resurrecting napoleon I go and meet with him, expecting a bit of gratitude for bringing him back from the dead, and returning Paris to the French, and his greeting is “what does a dishonorable person like you want?”… well fine then, have it your way Frenchy!... back to the grave you go!

I also noticed Elizabeth was somewhat ungrateful. After providing her with resources all game long, a few research agreements, cooperation pact, and assisting her in 3 wars due to her kind requests, I would have thought I would have earned some brownie points with her. Nope, she was as bitter as ever, and I’m left wondering if she didn’t enjoy last night as much as i did, or maybe it’s just that time of the.... game.

What ever happened to the old diplomacy screen, I liked being able to see what the AI’s relations are with others, and why they are angry. At least it should be fair that they let us know why they are angry at us after bending over backwards for them.

 

[Slowpoke]

Old diplo screen is coming back in 2-3 weeks

 

[luisfpf]

Old diplo screen is coming back in 2-3 weeks

Please lord let this be true !!!

 

[Canpolat]

Catherine, after some bloody battle and substantial losses against me, offers me Peace with a high Sum of Gold (over 3000). She smiles and looks like she had meet a good old friend. I of course accept and am happy that she likes me again.

A few turns later she declares War and hates my guts!.......

No!...I dont understand AI logic in Civ5 at all!

 

[Kyroshill]

Old diplo screen is coming back in 2-3 weeks

I'm a little worried about this... I mean the current diplo system is messed up... all AIs want war all the time whether it's good for them or not... but I like a degree of secrecy in my dealings with other leaders.

Why do so many players complain that:

1 - The game is too easy
2 - There is one optimal way to victory
3 - The AI is too easy to maniuplate

and then complain that they aren't getting hard numbers in the diplo screen...

excuse me but won't those hard numbers just solidify numbers 1-3 above?

So if I keep a PoS against Monty for 14 turns and a PoC with Catherine for 32 turns then I'll get a +3 boost with Catherine needed to get me a 300gold trade for my Ivory... woohoo... sounds like fun

 

[Venereus]

The +/- number won't fix anything if the diplo AI doesn't change. The AI is "playing to win", so the only way to keep it friendly is to have a common enemy. Once you take that enemy out, the alliance goes with it. This could be good if it wasn't for all the related problems.

 

[DaveGold]

Why do so many players complain that:

1 - The game is too easy
2 - There is one optimal way to victory
3 - The AI is too easy to maniuplate

and then complain that they aren't getting hard numbers in the diplo screen...

The game is too easy when you ignore the AI, take the optimal route to victory by killing people, and manipulate them for a just a short while until they all hate you.

excuse me but won't those hard numbers just solidify numbers 1-3 above?

The AI knows the rules and numbers. It plays the rules and numbers. The AI hates you if you don't get all the pluses and minuses right, even if that's 'play to lose'. Once you do get the pluses and minuses right, which is pretty hard since you don't know what they are without someone hacking the code and telling you, the AI hates you anyway as it decides to 'play to win'.

 

[halyavin]

There is nothing wrong with AI - they just forget to tell that they are all psychopaths. Killing an AI is a good deed. The more different ways to do this you know - the better. Pillage, block, bombard, raze cities, steal workers, bribe them to attack each other, sell cities so that the most empires have borders with each other what destroys good relations, stab them in the back when their army is elsewhere, sank their embarked units and watch the great empire to be DOWed for the rest of the AIs that hurry to tear down a piece of it.

Now watch yourself in the mirror and see that you no better than AI. I told ya that there is no problem with AI, isn't it?

Moreover, it is psychopathic you who AI have problems with now. And the patch is not going to fix you .

 

[CivFanaticMan]

The AI is "playing to win"

You have just spoken the truth to why the AI is so bad with diplomacy. Since there playing to win, they kill you no matter how friendly you are. If the AI changes were not made then I bet this game would be so much better.

 

[Gangor]

What does friendliness matter? WWI was fought between cousins.

 

[Varanid]

And between nations that had been at knife's edge for decades? It's not like the Germans and the French had got along since...1870? Viva Alsace and all that jazz...and Germany and the UK weren't exactly buds leading up to it either.
War doesn't generally happen over night for no visible reason. There's almost always some underlying tension that, at least in hindsight, you can find.

 

[Varvar]

The AI seems to hate you more the stronger you get. There is some logic to that I suppose - only the underdogs are well liked.

So if Gengis and Gandhi hate Suleiman, because Sully is the strongest, once I conquer Sully, I am now the strongest and they hate me.

In essence every world leader is dreaming of world domination and acting accordingly. With diplomacy victory now meaning buying CS, there is no drawbacks to that, other then the obvious loss of a realistic feel for the game (Gandhi attacking me unprovoked... its just wrong).

 

[Cletus2010]

other then the obvious loss of a realistic feel for the game (Gandhi attacking me unprovoked... its just wrong).

For me it isn't just Gandhi attacking me, it's some of the insults I get from him. Like for instance I just can't see the real life Gandhi telling me that I'm pathetic and weak and that he's gonna squash me (especially after I've been super nice to him all game). The "Gandhi" AI in Civ 5 has the exact same diplomatic skills of Montezuma or Genghis Khan (right down to exact same generic insults like "You're pathetic" or "Your army is a laughing stock").

 

[Guru-Meditation]

What is up with these ungrateful AI?

Bismark just wiped napoleon off the map. I have pity on napoleon and come in and destroy the German army, and then liberate Paris. I send in my witch doctors ti resurrect Napoleon from the dead.

Then after resurrecting napoleon I go and meet with him, expecting a bit of gratitude for bringing him back from the dead, and returning Paris to the French, and his greeting is “what does a dishonorable person like you want?”… well fine then, have it your way Frenchy!... back to the grave you go!

I also noticed Elizabeth was somewhat ungrateful. After providing her with resources all game long, a few research agreements, cooperation pact, and assisting her in 3 wars due to her kind requests, I would have thought I would have earned some brownie points with her. Nope, she was as bitter as ever, and I’m left wondering if she didn’t enjoy last night as much as i did, or maybe it’s just that time of the.... game.

What ever happened to the old diplomacy screen, I liked being able to see what the AI’s relations are with others, and why they are angry. At least it should be fair that they let us know why they are angry at us after bending over backwards for them.

Welcome to Civ 5.

Whre the A.I. is "playing to win"...

 

[Samuil]

What is up with these ungrateful AI?

Bismark just wiped napoleon off the map. I have pity on napoleon and come in and destroy the German army, and then liberate Paris. I send in my witch doctors ti resurrect Napoleon from the dead.

Then after resurrecting napoleon I go and meet with him, expecting a bit of gratitude for bringing him back from the dead, and returning Paris to the French, and his greeting is “what does a dishonorable person like you want?”… well fine then, have it your way Frenchy!... back to the grave you go!

I also noticed Elizabeth was somewhat ungrateful. After providing her with resources all game long, a few research agreements, cooperation pact, and assisting her in 3 wars due to her kind requests, I would have thought I would have earned some brownie points with her. Nope, she was as bitter as ever, and I’m left wondering if she didn’t enjoy last night as much as i did, or maybe it’s just that time of the.... game.

What ever happened to the old diplomacy screen, I liked being able to see what the AI’s relations are with others, and why they are angry. At least it should be fair that they let us know why they are angry at us after bending over backwards for them.

I went a step further with Mongolia, I liberated one of their cities (bringing them back to life), and then gave them two more cities I did not need... I contact the khan, and he is hostile towards me?

 

[CivDude86]

They have to vote for you where if they were dead they would vote for no one. Better to help no one win than help your enemy win.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Please lord let this be true !!!

Well, according to the info supplied about the upcoming patch, we will once more be informed of why a civ leader is happy with you and ewhat you have done/are doing which makes him unhappy, although the absolute numbers, which invited exploitation, won't return. So to that extent the old diplo screen will be back. Thank God, though, we won't be subjected to civ leaders who look like space aliens or the Playmate of the Month.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Catherine, after some bloody battle and substantial losses against me, offers me Peace with a high Sum of Gold (over 3000). She smiles and looks like she had meet a good old friend. I of course accept and am happy that she likes me again.

A few turns later she declares War and hates my guts!.......

No!...I dont understand AI logic in Civ5 at all!

She was just the same in Civ IV. A sneaky, scheming witch.

 

[cccv]

The +/- number won't fix anything if the diplo AI doesn't change.

Yeah, I kinda feel like people are a little too hopeful about the next patch. It may be better than what they're telling us so far, but it doesn't look at the moment like it's actually going to fix anything. For example, France will probably still hate you after you bring them back to life, but now you'll know it's "because you're a warmonger." But honestly, we've already figured that much out. Or when a civ goes halfway across the continent to settle by your capital and then tells you "you settled too close to us." Again, we know what the AI thinks the problem is, being told isn't what we need and it's not going to fix the problem. We need the AI fixed, not better communication with them.

What we've been told will change:

DIPLO

* AI's attitude towards you is now visible in the diplo screen and diplo drop-down.
* Added info tooltip for an AI leader's mood. Lists things that are making an AI player happy/upset.
* New diplo system: Declaration of Friendship (public declaration with diplomatic repercussions).
* New diplo system: Denounce (public declaration with diplomatic repercussions).
* New custom leader responses (Serious Expansion Warning, Aggressive Military, Luxury Exchange, Borders Exchange, Gift Request).

I don't see anything in there that indicates those changes will be made to make the AI actually reasonable. Maybe the next patch? Or the next? But what's most likely, I think, is that this is exactly what the game is intended to be. They will always be psychotic and stupid, and your best option will always be to end them, or keep them dead if they are already. I know I'm being pessimistic here, but I suppose it's needed to counterbalance all the people who for some reason think this patch will actually fix the diplo just by adding more communication.

 

[Callonia]

Bah, pluses and minuses eh.

We need to understand what exactly pact of secrecy does and pact of cooperation does.

And AI needs to have more expanded base of responses and initatives comments.

Atm its bare bones!

There needs to be more diplo options

pluses and minuses is unneeded in civ 5