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Ungrateful AI

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Vulcans, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. Renergy

    Renergy Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Messages:
    197
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    Well I liberated Napoleon once - one non-capital city - and he voted for me on the UN, for a couple of rounds actually. Maybe the ungratefulness only happens when one liberates a capital?
     
  2. Ddude97

    Ddude97 King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    761
    If you liberate a player be it citystate or "main" player, they will automatically vote for you in the UN (They will vote for the person who last liberated them)
     
  3. Left Foot

    Left Foot Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    Somewhere Far Beyond
    No, ungratefulness does not depend on the city. I once resurrected Augustus by liberating a non-capital city, and while he was friendly enough for a couple of turns, he quickly reverted to type and called me a bloodthirsty dishonorable person. He quickly rejoined the netherworld.

    I think the AI just likes being contrary. In my last game as Japan, I went to war against Al-Rashid. A few turns later we make peace, but he was still at war with my city state ally. The city state, despite being a few thousand miles away from Al-Rashid started asking for assistance. Since I didn't feel like gifting troops I try to negotiate a diplomatic solution. At first, I inadvertently demanded from Al-Rashid to make peace with the city state. He refused of course. During the same diplo session, I trade him nothing for him making peace with the city state, and he accepts...
     
  4. Poruchik

    Poruchik Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    4
    The problem is not that the AI is playing to win. The problem is that it is only playing to win ONE WAY, that is TOTAL WAR. It should be possible to win with Science and/or Culture and/or Diplo with not war or minimal war.
     
  5. zonk

    zonk Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    572
    Mark me down as also not caring about +/-

    Sure, it would be helpful to have ready access to the AI I've jerked over by breaking a pact with and which ones I've been trading peacefully with for centuries...

    What really needs to stop is this ridiculous business where you trade peacefully and happily with an AI for centuries, you come to their aid by request in a war, you SUCCEED in your mutual struggle and vanquish the common enemy (who only became an enemy to you because decided to help per the request).... and then your former friend now despises you as a bloodthirsty warmonger because you did precisely what s/he asked!

    That drives me absolutely nuts and before I set the game aside, I had pretty much decided -- forget it, I'm not even going to bother with any AI deals... Hate me, love me -- you'll certainly be attacking me eventually anyway so why should I even bother?
     
  6. elthrasher

    elthrasher Revcaster

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    712
    Yeah, I don't care about the fact that I can't count on anyone, but this crap totally destroys immersion. In my latest game, Caesar was the runaway. He eliminated Genghis and had Ramesses down to one tiny city when I went to war with this OBVIOUS THREAT to pull the heat off Ramesses.

    One turn later, Ramesses cancels our Pact of Cooperation because I'm a warmonger. The PoC is basically meaningless, especially with a guy who has maybe 2 population in his entire empire, but this, exactly this, is what makes me realize I'm playing a video game with simplistic AI and not they tyrant-in-waiting seeking to displace the current top bully.

    You can't explain it away as "oh well, the AI is trying to win." The best way to try to win when you're getting your butt kicked is get somebody else in the fight. Ramesses should be showering me with praise until he can get his feet under him and figure out how he can get back into the game. That's a lot to expect from an AI, so I'd gladly settle for him just liking me a lot as long as I'm beating on the guy who almost eliminated him.
     
  7. Ramesses

    Ramesses Ruler. Visionary. Pimp.

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,176
    The only complaints I have with the AI are when they come up to me with an offer, I accept, and they tell me that they don't like the offer.

    IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO MY DEMANS
    TOO LATE

    But odd glitches aside, the main concern I have is that because the AI thinks only of victory, they have absolutely no motivation to develop long-lasting relationships with you or anyone else. I think the best way to fix this is to make Pacts impose limitations on what you can and cannot do, as well as gradually providing greater benefits over time for not being canceled.

    For instance, the Pact of Cooperation:
    * Automatically generates revenue for both parties through trade; GPT generated this way grows over time as long as the PoC is not canceled.
    * Enables Research Agreements, which gradually become less expensive for both parties as long as the PoC is not canceled.
    * Enables Defensive Pacts, which also provide military units with XP bonuses that grow as long as the PoC is not canceled.
    * Canceling the PoC resets all bonuses and terminates all deals enabled through the PoC.
    * Declaring war on someone with whom you have a PoC automatically cancels the PoC.
     
  8. cairnsy44

    cairnsy44 Gooner - first class

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    625
    Location:
    Vermont
    AMEN, AMEN, AMEN........Well said!!!!!
     
  9. Öjevind Lång

    Öjevind Lång Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,371
    I think that the revamped diplomacy is one of greates features in Civ V That is to say, it would have been if they had bothered to make it work.

    By the way, Ramesses, in my latest game you insisted on hating me although your other neighbour, Askia, was taking over the world. You should have offered me an alliance and maybe war against the Songhai mass murderer before it was too late. You silly sod.
     
  10. Humakty

    Humakty Happy Goblin

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Messages:
    762
    Location:
    CheeseLand, Lyon
    The Ais are playing for the win ? Then they should remember I'm a wicked treacherous vile bastard, and that it is unwise to give me 450 gold for resources when my army is massing on their borders. For the fourth time....

    They seem to keep no track of previous mischief. Couldn't we hope for some positive evolutions in this area for civ 5 ? At least civ 4 AI hates me when I'm chain backstabbing them or their palls.
     
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,905
    That's only going to be helpful if the displayed #'s mean anything :lol:.

    If you have a long-standing PoC with an AI and have helped it in multiple wars, never encroaching on its interests, what more could you possibly do to gain favor? If it's going to get pissy without exception...what's the point of seeing it :(.

    Don't get me wrong, the game NEEDS to display those #s...they just need to mean something, too.
     
  12. Ramesses

    Ramesses Ruler. Visionary. Pimp.

    Joined:
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    That was my twin brother, Romesses. He's... special.
     
  13. b.orchid

    b.orchid Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Couldn't agree more. I have signed a bunch of pacts with the AI... still no idea what they do.
     
  14. TPQ

    TPQ Cogito Ergo Civ

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    587
    Location:
    UK
    I don't agree that the Civ5 AIs play to win. I agree they're just psychopathic and/or stupid. Much more stupid than Civ4 AIs at any rate.

    I've had AIs declare war on me when we've had peaceful relations for hundreds of turns, where trade has been more in their favour than mine (i.e. I was being generous to them) and when they had 5 cities to my ~25 and ~10 units to my ~30 AND they were behind me in tech... That is NOT "playing to win" that is simply irrational and nonsensical, not to mention suicidal...

    Lets hope this can be patched.
     
  15. Guru-Meditation

    Guru-Meditation Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    87

    Couldnt have described my A.I. experiences better.

    It´s simply Bad. With a capital B.






    I dont count on it. :sad:
     

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