Unique Ability Elimination Thread

Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 10
Phoenician Heritage: 25
Art of War: 25 (+1) Citadels and more citadels!
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 16 (-3) Amazing for filling Liberty, not so amazing after that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but +2 culture per city doesn't negate the increase in policy costs.
Hellenic League: 21
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 21
Siberian Riches: 15
Father Governs Children: 1
Nobel Prize: 26
 
Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 11
Phoenician Heritage: 22
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 16
Hellenic League: 21
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 21
Siberian Riches: 15
Father Governs Children: 1
Nobel Prize: 26

I don't think I'm underestimating the skill (Ingenuity). Getting a few more scientists, including one dang early, is all good and well, but I can't imagine it being game changing. It's a big boost early, but it dies off hard late as GP become harder to make. Comparing to Nobel Prize, the boost to GS is nice (depending on map size, between much better and slightly worse), but there's no way to get ANY other GP without throwing away your UA AND there's no extra way to use ANY GP. Give me the flexibility.

+1 Ingenuity
I have to disagree again Rooftrellen. First, no civ's UA is "game changing," not one that gives you an insurmountable lead against the AI. Ingenuity is a big boost early, nearly doubles your early science almost immediately, and that extra science just continue's getting multiplied in your capital the entire game. There is no other UA that can give a science bonus close to this. I do not think it "dies off hard late" as the extra 50% is just going to help reach another great scientist, when other civs would struggle a little more. When playing Babylon, I only want scientists to pop, to continue the science steamrolling.

When comparing to Nobel Prize, I much prefer 50% to my great scientist generation, that an unstable amount % points depending on which AI isn't recently denouncing you (which they all hate me cause I am usually declaring war on all of them).

-3 Phoenician Heritage:

I've I have said before (p20. 22) Pheonician Heritage excels at archipelago and small island maps in which every city is forced to be on the coast. The easy trade routes and extra hammers are very useful then. It loses its swagger in continents maps, which you really only need 2 harbors to connect the two land masses late. The ability is almost completely useless in Pangea. You don't need harbors at all for trade routes and that 1 extra hammer in coastal cities that has 1 fish does not matter cause you have your higher production land cities anyways. Fun on island games, the least useful ability left on large land mass games (I would prefer England's extra spy for some more early tech steals).
 
@ snoop,

Ingenuity should be 12 with your bump, sebastian used an old copy that didn't include last pages last post bump.

Correction, it should be 13. Two mistake posts on the last page.
 
Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 13
Phoenician Heritage: 22
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 16
Hellenic League: 21
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 21
Siberian Riches: 16
Father Governs Children: 0
Nobel Prize: 26

Siberian Riches: Stated a great reason last post, resumed by: early production without the need for an improvement is great, double resources are not meant to be used, but to be sold without sacrificing happiness (of course you can use it for war as well). Don't have strats? Settle near them to create a city more productive than your capital and use the krepost to help it expand. No nearby resources? Ok, this is bad, but you can always conquer your horse-filled-neighbor.

Father Governs Children: This ability is good for cultural victories, but, on higher levels, it becomes harder and harder to be allied with city states. It is nice that they get 1,5 the friends bonus, but the good part of it is to be allied with a CS, to get a huger bonus, and on higher difficulties it is hard to do so, specially if you have Greece/Austria/Sweden/Persia(for the gold) as your oponents. On high difficulties it becomes almost impossible to put it to use without a major gold bonus. Not bad, but worse than the others. (I know I said good things about Patriarchate of Constantinople, and it has some simillar flaws of difficulty, but this is because I find that founding a religion is not that difficult up to emperor. I can always found one, even the last. I can't say much about Immortal, but I know that on Deity it is beyond impossible. I would rank PoC lower than FGC, for instance, though)
 
Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 14
Phoenician Heritage: 22
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 16
Hellenic League: 18
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 21
Siberian Riches: 16
Nobel Prize: 26

HL: FGC went before this? It suffers from the same problem of actually having to get the influence, and for those that try to equate the benefits, saying that greece has the same but more spread out, FGC gets it earlier in that case, and, much more importantly has double the ceiling, and when you're specialising your CS mix, that's almost alsways used (unless you're on a huge map). Increased quests make this UA less useful than in vanilla.

Ingenuity: have upvoted a couple times already, but it's just too good to go yet. I personally hate the Science vc, but it doesn't have to be used for that; it's just an early (big) leg up for any relevant tech you need for your game.
 
Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 13
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 16
Hellenic League: 18
Great Andean Road: 26
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 21
Siberian Riches: 16
Father Governs Children: 0
Nobel Prize: 26

I looked though the whole last page, and I didn't see any mistakes, just the one onto this page, and anyone correcting that should have seen the East Dutch India company as well. I went back to the start of page 27 looking for the other vote that was missed, where did you see it Petiscator?

I'm hitting the Great Andean Road. It's nice and all, but there isn't much else here I'd give up to get that boost, and several that are gone already, I'd rank above this. It's not that it's bad, it's just that the competition is really strong now.

Phoenician Heritage may excel on watery maps, but as long as the world is round, you have a heck of a UA. You can gain a lot from coastal cities in any game, even if there is only one landmass. I shudder to think of a civ that has grown wide without many or any coastal cities to provide trade networks, particularly after railroads come around. Even without Carthage I'm generally looking for the nearest decent coast on which to build a city. Carthage just makes it easier and faster to set up more or less how I would want to anyway. It's a massive boost from pretty early that just keeps on giving.
 
My apologies, Rooftrellen, you are right. I corrected it because Udey1 mentioned it, so I went to check it and only found +1 more to Ingenuity, but I made a quick read and ended up trusting what he said. About Dutch East India Company: didn't see it =/

Now on the Hellenic League downvote: this actually makes it easier to get allied with a CS, instead of FGC, which might be ecclipsed easily. Some have posted the diference of bonuses between HL and FGC, I think there is one on the last page.
 
You missed my vote (or am I not allowed to vote? Is it an exclusive thing?)
 
Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 13
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 16
Hellenic League: 18
Great Andean Road: 27
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 29
The Glory of Rome: 21
Siberian Riches: 16
Nobel Prize: 26

It isn't exclusive, nobody saw it because you didn't copy the list. Please do that next time, it makes it more visible and noticeable...
 
My apologies, Rooftrellen, you are right. I corrected it because Udey1 mentioned it, so I went to check it and only found +1 more to Ingenuity, but I made a quick read and ended up trusting what he said. About Dutch East India Company: didn't see it =/

Now on the Hellenic League downvote: this actually makes it easier to get allied with a CS, instead of FGC, which might be ecclipsed easily. Some have posted the diference of bonuses between HL and FGC, I think there is one on the last page.

You just got it because you were the one that made the correction :P

Yeah, as far as I could tell, looking though, it was just that, and as I said, I went back to the page earlier, thinking maybe he was talking about another vote lost in the page. It's easy for that to happen, since it's less likely anyone notices.

Really, comparing HL and FGC is pretty hard. They really aim for different things. I will say, contrary to what people say, I find HL more powerful now than before G&K. Now, quests are so common that Greece can keep several friends, if not allies, just by doing quests, and religion throws the UA into overdrive. The one game I have under my belt with Greece in G&K, no one could even pull off a coup due to my crazy levels of influence.
 
Yes, my compatriot, I also think that Hellenic League is even more powerful in GNK. 0 influence loss per turn is an amazing thing, only possible with our fellow Greece :)
 
Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 13
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 16
Hellenic League: 18
Great Andean Road: 28 (+1)
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 29
The Glory of Rome: 21
Siberian Riches: 13 (-3)
Nobel Prize: 26

The Great Andean Road is just unbeatable. There is nothing more versatile, economically or militarily, than this ability. You gain a permanent advantage over everybody else.

Siberian Riches is great with oil and uranium, I guess, but unless you really want to build lots of swords and horsemen, you'll be able to make due with the typical quantities of strategic resources.
 
Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 13
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 24 (+1)
Ancien Regime: 16
Hellenic League: 18
Great Andean Road: 28
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 29
The Glory of Rome: 18 (-3)
Siberian Riches: 13
Nobel Prize: 26

With the new emphasis placed on naval warfare, sun never sets is a great power, and englands extra spy allows for a lot of versatility
With glory of rome you will have to constantly choose between building wonders in your capital, or actually get to use your ability. Not a huge fan (Not bad though, definitly still has a good usefullness to it.)
 
Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 13
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 22(-2)
Ancien Regime: 16
Hellenic League: 18
Great Andean Road: 29(+1)
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 29
The Glory of Rome: 18
Siberian Riches: 13
Nobel Prize: 26

GAR is simply the best. The money u get is great. plus u move faster over hills.
Since the best naval Ability(Viking Fury) has been destroyed there is no reason for this slighly worse counterpart to be in line with the best.
 
Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 13
Phoenician Heritage: 23
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 21
Ancien Regime: 16
Hellenic League: 18
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 29
The Glory of Rome: 15 (-3)
Siberian Riches: 14 (+1)
Nobel Prize: 26

-3 GOR favors massive expansion while that is nice that leads to many problems. i.e. :mad:

+1 siberian riches should not be underestimated as you can get really good tiles
(4:c5production:) with no modifiers or (7:c5production:) with a mine and forge. that is a very good iron tile
 
-3 Phoenician Heritage:

I've I have said before (p20. 22) Pheonician Heritage excels at archipelago and small island maps in which every city is forced to be on the coast. The easy trade routes and extra hammers are very useful then. It loses its swagger in continents maps, which you really only need 2 harbors to connect the two land masses late. The ability is almost completely useless in Pangea. You don't need harbors at all for trade routes and that 1 extra hammer in coastal cities that has 1 fish does not matter cause you have your higher production land cities anyways. Fun on island games, the least useful ability left on large land mass games (I would prefer England's extra spy for some more early tech steals).

played a continets game as carthage recently and the free harbours was still useful. Often you get many sites on the map where a costal city can have atleast one fish resource ( which is the same as having a unimproved salt mine, probably the best luxury resource), and remeber once you get the wheel you get a free trade route, which is always useful. Plus you can always cross mountains, which on a large landmass can be useful.
 
Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 13
Phoenician Heritage: 20
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 21
Ancien Regime: 16
Hellenic League: 18
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 29
The Glory of Rome: 15
Siberian Riches: 14
Nobel Prize: 27

Phoenician Heritage - I generally don't like coastal cities, they tend to be the weakest link for me, both for poorer production and for the fact that they are exposed to land -and- sea. I also don't like forgoing building roads in order to see an economic benefit, roads are always useful, for workers, for your own units moving from city to city, doing without roads in order to exploit the free harbour traderoutes creates a weakness in your empire. I also for similar reasons dislike attempting to exploit the free harbour traderoutes by building long coastal empires - long coastal empire with no road connections between.. well, that's a surefire way to -lose- cities to the AI, being coastal means -all- of your cities are potential targets of AI aggression, where normally you would expand in a circular way to shield cities in the back. Without roads, with a long stretching empire you are going to be hardpressed to defend yourself, especially as your horseman has been replaced by an overpriced slowmoving gimmicky elephant unit. Now, if Carthage had obtained a range-firing trireme replacement, they would be set! if they had the dromon instead of the quinquireme they would be probably one of my favourite civs, since the dromon can completely protect any coastal city, to devastating effect. But sadly, the dromon was wasted on the Deity/Immortal-useless Byzantines, where 75% of the time you don't even get to use your UA.

Nobel Prize - flavour, fun, those are really the main reasons I upvote this. I haven't managed to make it late game yet with Sweden, but I imagine like all diplomatic-based civs I might become entirely frustrated if I did. Coup-spam is out of control, especially on higher levels, so I'm not even sure having 300+ influence with a city state would cut it, to hold on and there would be nothing more frustrating than losing great people that you gifted -and- any gold you spent, not to mention invested yourself in a patronage tree strategy - all wasted beacuse the AI is coup-crazy and always seems successful at it. On the other hand, this UA still comes in handy early game, where no spies are around to mess things up and this sets you up for a very powerful early game, the friendship thing could be leveraged as well, if you play large maps.
 
Sacrificial Captives: 23 (-3) Small culture Bonus... Combined with Honor is useful in early game but...
Ingenuity: 13
Phoenician Heritage: 20
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 21
Ancien Regime: 16
Hellenic League: 18
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 19 (+1) Amazing Science Bonus
Dutch East India Company: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 29
The Glory of Rome: 15
Siberian Riches: 14
Nobel Prize: 27
 
Sacrificial Captives: 23
Ingenuity: 13
Phoenician Heritage: 20
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 21
Ancien Regime: 13
Hellenic League: 18
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 19
Dutch East India Company: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 29
The Glory of Rome: 15
Siberian Riches: 14
Nobel Prize: 28

Nobel Prize: Really great UA, and is my personal favourite. As I stated in a good amount of posts, it has sinergy with Warrior Code of the Honor Policy tree, giving you a free alliance with a CS of your choice. It is great for warring, as you will generate a lot of GGs and GAs, specially if you got something like Samurai/African Forest Elephant/Companion Cavalry from a militaristic CS (as those unit have either Great Generals I or Great Generals II, helping you to get even more alliances). The bonus percentage per friendship is useful to get some allies and start the wars; after you warmongered a lot it fades away but then you will probably be steamrolling the whole continent while allied with a bunch of CSs. It also has sinergy with faith and the Messiah enhancer, seriously, you can be as mad as bunny and play peacefully to get more GP from friendships and GProphets from faith or you can destroy every single city you know.

Ancien Regime: Really good for early policies, and has sinergy with the Liberty policy tree, nice when going on a conquering spree to get a huge pupet empire to go for culture. Not bad, but my problem with this is that, when going cultural, I prefer so much more to go for tradition that picking liberty makes me feel bad. A pupet empire is also really difficult to defend, and, when going cultural, I prefer to build buildings and wonders rather than unit spamming.
 
Sacrificial Captives: 23
Ingenuity: 13
Phoenician Heritage: 20
Art of War: 25
Sun Never Sets: 21
Ancien Regime: 13
Hellenic League: 18
Great Andean Road: 26
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 19
Dutch East India Company: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 29
The Glory of Rome: 16
Siberian Riches: 14
Nobel Prize: 28

+the Glory of Rome: It adds flavor, for you have to emphasize on your capital and do some rush-buy. And it provides a useful and practical bonus to every other city.

-Great Andean Road: Although it saves a little money and helps scouting, it still isn't that great and has been overrated.
 
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