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Unique Buildings Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Mesix, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Rooftrellen

    Rooftrellen King

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    691
    Location:
    Vitória, Brazil
    Floating Gardens 10
    Paper Maker 35(+1)
    Pyramid 42 (-2)
    Stele 33
    Wat 7

    Paper maker is a huge help to an early economy and gold multiplies very well through the game.

    The more I think about it, the more I have to compare the pyramid and floating gardens. They are both come in the ancient era (a bit later for the gardens) and both give science, but science though pop also lets you work tiles or make specialists, while +2 science just sits there. Sure the beakers from the pyramid never go away while other civs can catch up with the pop of the Aztecs (assuming no lakes, since they are fairly rare), but the extra pop over that period should leave the Aztecs far ahead of the Maya in terms of science, and everything else.

    I just don't think the Floating Gardens are as good as the Paper Maker...but I might end up changing my mind on that if I sleep on it another day.
     
  2. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,359
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    I don't think the Aztecs can keep up with the Mayans on science, even if they ignore their propensity to conquer a large swath of land and use their Floating Gardens in a few tall cities to go for a supercharged Tradition start. The extra +2 :c5science: and additional :c5faith: from the Pyramid is not only earlier, but it also stacks well with a REX strategy to generate a lot of early :c5science:. Add to that the Mayan Long Count, and you have a recipe for a fast pace science game which can compete with Babylon and Korea...which the Aztecs can't. If they do decide to go on an early conquest, then the Floating Gardens become more of a liability than a benefit as their cities will outgrow the available happiness.
     
  3. theis81

    theis81 Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    119
    Floating Gardens 8 (-2)
    Paper Maker 35
    Pyramid 43 (+1)
    Stele 33
    Wat 7

    Floating gardens is great, but with Aztecs you usually wont go tall, so among the 5 left it is the worst imo.

    Pyramids are great for early expansion.
     
  4. maurcus

    maurcus Warlord

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    245
    Floating Gardens 8
    Paper Maker 33 (-2) i never need gold that early
    Pyramid 43
    Stele 34 (+1) fast faith output beats fast gold output as i never seem to be short on gold
    Wat 7
     
  5. Lordleoz

    Lordleoz Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Shanghai, China
    Floating Gardens 8
    Paper Maker 34 (i always need gold that early)
    Pyramid 43
    Stele 34
    Wat 5 (as I've mentioned before)
     
  6. Carl5872

    Carl5872 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    774
    Location:
    Mentor, Ohio
    Floating Gardens 8
    Paper Maker 34
    Pyramid 43
    Stele 35 (+1)
    Wat 3 (-2)

    Stele is IMO the best one here, and that is truly saying a lot because all these buildings are amazing. Cuture and faith are so critical that early in the game. The faith gives an early religion, and all the powers thereon. Also securing a pantheon belief first is almost a lock. You can secure one of the best ones (like the desert tiles get +1 faith). In addition, you dont even have to build these with the tradition policy. The culture also is much more important early on because it lets you fly through policies. I dont care what win condition you go for, policies are critical to it.

    The wat is an amazing building, but it comes later, and the culture boost is good for anyone. I just dont think its as helpful as the early culture and faith is.
     
  7. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    608
    haha that's great. And if you don't need gold that early... why aren't you spending it!!?!?!?

    Floating Gardens 6 (-2) The unhappiness from growth problem does seem magnified considering the Aztecs shine in war.
    Paper Maker 34 (+1) Spend gold early and often. No sense saving for a rainy day. EXCEPTION: saving money to rush buy an archer and walls if you sense an impending rush.
    Pyramid 43
    Stele 35
    Wat 3
     
  8. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    Floating Gardens 4 (-2)
    Paper Maker 34
    Pyramid 43
    Stele 35 (+1)
    Wat 3

    I love floating gardens, but I find it difficult to fit into my early build order when I'm playing the Aztecs. Military and happiness are my priorities when I'm chewing up opponents with my jags. As noted before, Stele deserves to win second place. It's part of essentially every eary build order that makes sense, and it's a real game changer for getting an early pantheon and a leg up on an early religion. Only the Celts can compete in the first handful of turns, and their faith bonus is just too short-lived.
     
  9. Lordleoz

    Lordleoz Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Shanghai, China
    Correct a mistake.

    Floating Gardens 6
    Paper Maker 35
    Pyramid 43
    Stele 36
    Wat 3
     
  10. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,359
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    This tally should be correct for the last few posts.

    Floating Gardens 4
    Paper Maker 35
    Pyramid 43
    Stele 36
    Wat 3
     
  11. jacksone7

    jacksone7 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    28
    Floating Gardens 4
    Paper Maker 36 (+1)
    Pyramid 43
    Stele 36
    Wat 1 (-2)

    Paper Maker - flipped a coin with Pyramid - PM won.
    Wat - great building, but it comes the latest of those left
     
  12. Algeroth

    Algeroth 8 and 1/2

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,466
    Location:
    Прага
    Floating Gardens 5
    Paper Maker 36
    Pyramid 43
    Stele 36
    Wat 0

    FG - Great (and only from this list) for tall empires
    Wat - Too late for its effect.
     
  13. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,359
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    And then there were 4.

    OP has been updated.
     
  14. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,272
    I don't really love "desert tiles get +1 faith" as a pantheon unless you're convinced you can be the first to build Petra. Otherwise, working non-flood plain desert tiles = bad, unless maybe they're all hills.

    However, that really belongs in a Pantheon elimination thread... which I'd love to see. I always struggle to decide which one to go with, and end up feeling lame for choosing +10% growth.
     
  15. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    608
    !!!!!!!!!!!!

    Desert folklore is by FARRRRRRRRR the best pantheon if you get a desert start... Nothing comes close, not even my second favorite, messenger of the gods.
     
  16. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,181
    Floating Gardens 6 (+1) Amazing building. The Aztecs actually aren't meant to shine in War anymore in GK. They are meant to go tall. Jaguars are cheap warriors to use for easy to defend terrain (jungles), jungles provide science later on and oftentimes come with bananas for extra food, Jaguars make it extremely easy to bully city states with their cheapness/increased strength/promotions allowing you to rush buy any tall infrustructure you want in your cities. All you need now is rapid growth. Its easy to deal with "happiness" as the Aztecs. Floating Gardens give so much momentum if used right and don't even need a semi-exploit like the Wat to use :p
    Paper Maker 34 (-2) To me seems to be the worst of the "wide" UB remaining. The extra gold helps a ton. Don't get me wrong. But... that extra gold is much more gradual and has less effect on slower speeds. The Pyramid is rapid science and faith where its important to get faith early as fast as you can if you want to make the most use out of faith. The Stele also does the same regards.
    Pyramid 43
    Stele 36
     
  17. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,272
    Why, so you can work desert tiles with no food or gold production in the early game to get a religion going? Religion isn't worth getting if it slows you down that much. Again, aside from hills with mines I don't see the point unless you get Petra?

    Am I missing something here?
     
  18. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    Perhaps you're confusing Petra and Desert Folklore. Desert Folklore works on floodplains (unlike Petra). That makes a world of difference.
     
  19. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,964
    Location:
    Québec
    Floating Gardens 4
    Paper Maker 34
    Pyramid 43
    Stele 37

    Stele : Ethiopia + REX style = early religion.

    Floating Gardens : Problem is that you can't always settle near fresh water(and build it).
     
  20. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,272
    Ah, got it, well heck, floodplains starts are awesome, I seem to just get regular ol desert usually. :p
     

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