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Unique Buildings Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Mesix, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Carl5872

    Carl5872 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Mentor, Ohio
    Is it just me or do buildings, as a whole, seem better than Unique Units. Yes there are exceptions, like the longbowmen or Keshiks and the walls of babylon, but as a whole it seems the choices are MUCH tougher now than the UU one will be.

    This makes me really want to add a UB for each civ in addition to what they already have. I know some civs it will be very easy to add, and some we may have to grasp at straws, but I think it would be a nice DLC or maybe part of the next expansion. Anyone agree?
     
  2. Arilian

    Arilian King

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2008
    Messages:
    662
    Location:
    Hungary
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 20
    Ceilidh Hall 24
    Coffee House 17
    Floating Gardens 23
    Longhouse 11
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 17
    Paper Maker 23
    Pyramid 28
    Satrap's Court 18
    Stele 22
    Wat 22

    Bazaar is just godly good for any VC.
    Satrap's Court is good, but this is an expensive building that you do not normally build everywhere.
     
  3. Arilian

    Arilian King

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2008
    Messages:
    662
    Location:
    Hungary
    I like UBs and UUs and UIs too, everyone should have more.
     
  4. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    You get one of the first 3 religions with just shrines? Are you getting a ton of faith ruins or always near a faith natural wonder? Otherwise, that's hard to believe.

    The Stele almost guarantees the pantheon of your choice and an early religion, and you don't need to burn early hammers on shrines or temples (build settler, units, or workers instead). Try Ethiopia if you haven't already. I guarantee that you'll love the Stele.
     
  5. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    Burial Tomb 20
    Ceilidh Hall 24
    Coffee House 17
    Floating Gardens 23
    Longhouse 11
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 15 (-2)
    Paper Maker 23
    Pyramid 28
    Satrap's Court 17
    Stele 23 (+1)
    Wat 22

    I love the Stele for reasons noted above. The Mud Pyramid Mosque has effectively been nerfed. It's like a Stele with one less maintenece, but at 250% (!!!) of the cost and it requires multiple techs. No thanks.
     
  6. duhu

    duhu Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    91
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 20
    Ceilidh Hall 24
    Coffee House 17
    Floating Gardens 23
    Longhouse 11
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 15 (-2)
    Paper Maker 23
    Pyramid 28
    Satrap's Court 18
    Stele 23
    Wat 22
     
  7. Rooftrellen

    Rooftrellen King

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    691
    Location:
    Vitória, Brazil
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 20
    Ceilidh Hall 25 (+1)
    Coffee House 17
    Floating Gardens 23
    Longhouse 11
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 15
    Paper Maker 23
    Pyramid 26 (-2)
    Satrap's Court 18
    Stele 23
    Wat 22

    The Celts get a warmonger's dream building. Culture for your expanding empire to keep up with social policy costs and happiness to cover the unhappiness from your expansion.

    I have to hit the pyramid. All the UBs left are excellent in my eyes, but the pyramid is all about that little bit early. It may be the only UB that I feel gets weaker as the game goes on, while most get stronger.
     
  8. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,181
    How exactly ^ That +2 Science is added to the base of the city. Modifiers like Unis are actually made more effective. Say you have 4 cities only even (and thats not using the UB to its max use but just for examples sake) that is the +8 science alone. With roads (and messenger of the gods which as the Maya tends to be easy to pick up) thats +16 science. It only takes building one city to match Babylon's academy (8 science from panth + Pyramid + 4 faith).

    If anything the Pyramid's early momentum allows you to scale up. Universities? Made more effective. Faith? Allows you to get the follower beliefs you want quickly (Pagodas added to momentum for example allowing more expansion + aseciticism or whatever you want). That extra science early on allows you to breeze through techs. That extra faith - practically guarentees you a religion. If anything since they are base yields - they scale up over time (Acumulated faith and Acumulated science)
     
  9. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    921
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 20
    Ceilidh Hall 25
    Coffee House 17
    Floating Gardens 23
    Longhouse 9
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 15
    Paper Maker 23
    Pyramid 27
    Satrap's Court 18
    Stele 23
    Wat 22

    I don't know why anyone would downvote Pyramid. double faith and 2 science is AWESOME!!!

    Sorry, longhouse. I just prefer farms to lumber mills.
     
  10. Rooftrellen

    Rooftrellen King

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    691
    Location:
    Vitória, Brazil
    Units give the same 33/50% bonus to that 2 science as anything else. The problem is that science is nearly unlimited, so getting a small amount, even if it gets multipliers, isn't all that much. How much science does a library provide? The exact number is hard to say. In a large city, it's a heck of a lot! Maybe it's just unfair to compare that to, say, culture, which is always produced in set amounts. Something like the Mud Pyramid Mosque allows every Songhai city to potentially produce more culture than any civ without a culture producing UB. Science, ironically, isn't nearly as exact. That +2 science can be massive, but it can also be incredibly tiny.

    Once your cities get decently tall (I tend to play huge maps, so I assume my cities get tall slower than most others), that 2 science fades.

    Heck, Messenger of the Gods actually makes it look even worse. Early science for the Maya doubles with their UB. Compare that to the Stele. 2 extra science over the 0 the Stele gives is...raw number, exactly the same bonus, and percentage wise, much better (infinitely so, in fact).
     
  11. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,181
    I can see partly where you are coming from - but your point seems unclear. That "2 science fades" doesn't seem like you were sure with what point you were making. The taller a city gets, the more science it puts into the pool to be modified

    And percentage wise over a 0 base yield doesn't make sense to analyze. Heck we Maya know that :p, stem boxing a 0 base is quite a pointless observation. That 4 science acts as part of a pool. Once a city grows it adds onto that pool with science from population. Now while basic CRTUL Principle says we ought to avoid multiplying/dividing yields by 0 X D, we can see that +4 science allow smaller cities to act as if they had larger population bases to start. Couple that with the flexibility and the low cost per hammer to science ratio converted it is quite possibly the most optimum building in game.

    ===

    Add into that the dual nature of faith (since it isn't just a science building) it offers several other pathways to add additional benefits to the localized pool.

    Ascetism + 1 happy per Pyramid, the logistic growth of faith in regards to faith purchased buildings, food from shrines/temples (to allow for ICS to indirectly have more hammers in each city), etc.

    ==

    And the fact that its bonus may seem less comparatively less further on is that of not looking hard enough at the stats. It is part of the sacrifice of having an earlier UB to give momentum to reach those comparative levels faster which makes the Pyramid so amazing.

    Compare that with something like the Celidh Hall (Which is entirely eww in my opinion due to the hammer cost ratio, it being so late game and having too many requirements [It replaces the opera house... I mean come on thats a building in most circumstances you don't need/want to build to often and having a 6 gold cost to get a somewhat minimal payoff of 3 happy is quite terrible] to make it feel as anything other than facimile, etc.) which may have "larger" effects but takes so long to build up to and without being able to be modified/create much momentum is something that the Pyramid can do which the Celdih hall never could dream of
     
  12. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,961
    Location:
    Québec
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 20
    Ceilidh Hall 25
    Coffee House 17
    Floating Gardens 23
    Longhouse 9
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 15
    Paper Maker 23
    Pyramid 27
    Satrap's Court 16
    Stele 24
    Wat 22

    Stele : Free faith for fast religion. Hard to beat.

    Satrap's Court : Less powerful than vanilla. Happiness was less abundant than today.
     
  13. kamikazees

    kamikazees Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    266
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 21
    Ceilidh Hall 25
    Coffee House 17
    Floating Gardens 23
    Longhouse 9
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 13
    Paper Maker 23
    Pyramid 27
    Satrap's Court 16
    Stele 24
    Wat 22

    Burial Tomb: Maintenance-free building that gives 2 :c5faith: and 2 :c5happy: in the classical era? You can get a religion and grow ever faster, earlier. Wow.

    Mud Pyramid Mosque: I want to build this early to get a maintenance-free building with :c5faith:, but I have to hold off because too much :c5culture: early will ruin being able to take Rationalism as my 7th policy.
     
  14. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    608
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 21
    Ceilidh Hall 25
    Coffee House 15 (-2) A modest great person boost isn't that helpful compared to the other great UBs here.
    Floating Gardens 23
    Longhouse 9
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 13
    Paper Maker 24 (+1) Not much better than gold in the early game. There is a huge difference between a city with a normal library (-2) and a city with a paper maker (+2). Go wide with China and you will be rolling in cash. Pyramid 27
    Satrap's Court 16
    Stele 24
    Wat 22
     
  15. Awsome Sause

    Awsome Sause Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 21
    Ceilidh Hall 25
    Coffee House 15
    Floating Gardens 23
    Longhouse 9
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 11
    Paper Maker 24
    Pyramid 28
    Satrap's Court 16
    Stele 24
    Wat 22

    Pyramid: almost guarantied early religion and the early science boost really helps!

    Mud Pyramid Mosque: +2 culture is not as big of a bonus as the other ones left, being maintenance free is nice though.
     
  16. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,725
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 21
    Ceilidh Hall 25
    Coffee House 15
    Floating Gardens 23
    Longhouse 9
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 9 (-2)
    Paper Maker 24
    Pyramid 29 (+1)
    Satrap's Court 16
    Stele 24
    Wat 22

    Pyramid: it's what makes ICS really viable. Cheap, early building that gives two decent fixed bonusses

    Mud Pyramid Mosque: At IMM+, it's hard to found a religion unless you have an early bonus, so Temples are buildings that you might skip altogether, or at least are rather low priority, because you can't do anything with Faith until a religion spreads to your city. MPM gets the downvote over the Burial Tomb because 2 happy is more useful than 2 culture.
     
  17. Leviat

    Leviat Addict

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    US
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 21
    Ceilidh Hall 25
    Coffee House 12
    Floating Gardens 24
    Longhouse 9
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 9
    Paper Maker 24
    Pyramid 29
    Satrap's Court 16
    Stele 24
    Wat 22

    Floating Gardens= more population=more science. I really wanted to give a vote to the Longhouse to keep it alive, but the floating gardens are a better building.

    Coffee House: I've never been impressed with the extra great people generation.
     
  18. Udey1

    Udey1 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    484
    Location:
    Champaign Illinois
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 19
    Ceilidh Hall 25
    Coffee House 12
    Floating Gardens 22(-2)
    Longhouse 9
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 9
    Paper Maker 24
    Pyramid 29
    Satrap's Court 16
    Stele25(+1)
    Wat 22

    I vote floating down because many times the conditions for it to shine are not met, and it being a special building is dependent on that.
     
  19. pensivepeppers

    pensivepeppers Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    66
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 19
    Ceilidh Hall 25
    Coffee House 11 (-2)
    Floating Gardens 22
    Longhouse 9
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 9
    Paper Maker 24
    Pyramid 29
    Satrap's Court 17 (+1)
    Stele 25
    Wat 22

    Someone deducted 3 instead of 2 off of Coffee House, and I subtracted because, well, it's Coffee House. Just a very meh UB.

    Satrap's Court doesn't deserve such strong hate imho. Happiness isn't a walk in the park (to me at least) and to get it from a building you're most likely going to build often is pretty nice. Plus it goes well with getting that Golden Age their (the Persians) UA makes so much sweeter.
     
  20. duhu

    duhu Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    91
    Bazaar 25
    Burial Tomb 19
    Ceilidh Hall 25
    Coffee House 11 (-2)
    Floating Gardens 22
    Longhouse 7
    Mud Pyramid Mosque 9
    Paper Maker 24
    Pyramid 29
    Satrap's Court 17 (+1)
    Stele 25
    Wat 23

    production nothing special, the additional science and culture great for a university.
     

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