Unique Historical Victories?

Cheesylard

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Has anyone started to work on the Unique Historical Victories? Because, although I am no programer and cannot litterly put it into the game, I would be more then happy to figure out historical victories for any of the civilizations, for whatever thats worth...
 
Alright then, I shall...
Is there anything currently that needs to be done that I can do with no programing knowlage?
 
May I post my Ideas for a Sparta UHV? No? WHO CARES!

Ensure no non-Greek (Anyone but Athens and Sparta at this point) culture is in Greece by 478 B.C. (Second Greco-Persian war (The one with Marathon and 300 Spartans) ended 479)
Control more land than Athens by 406 B.C. (Peloponnesian War ended 404 B.C.)
Never lose a city until 148 B.C. (Sparta was conquered by Rome in 146 B.C.)
 
Well for now we have 3 historical UHV's to choose from and we have plenty of time to think of an a-historical UHV. I say we should think of 2-3 historical UHV's for each civ and later choose which ones fit.
Here's some UHV's for Phoenicia:
1. Control 7 coastal cities not in the area near Tyre (As in overseas) by (2 turns before Carthage spawn year).
2. Be the first to discover The Alphabet, (Some ship-related technology), and Currency.
3. Control X of Y (valuable trade resource, maybe several kinds of resources could be required)
Well that's all I can think of right now, seems too generic but I think it could give a nice guideline and jump-start when we really need to think of some UHVs.
 
I think maybe Sparta should have somthing involving the city of athens, as they did.... burn it, kinda a big part of history
You know, as the Historical Goal
 
Possible UHV Requirements:

Babylon:
1. Be the first to discover Writing, Code of Law and Monarchy
2. Build the Hanging Gardens and Ishtar Gate by 600BC (under the assumption that the Ishtar Gate will be a wonder)
3. Control Israel and Mesopotamia in 600BC
4. Babylon must be the most populated nation in the world from 700-500BC
5. Have the largest army in the world in 600BC

Israel:
1. Build the Temple of Solomon by 960BC
2. Don't lose a city until 0AD
3. Found 2 religions
4. Be making 40 gold per turn from Holy Shrines in 200AD
5. Control the capital of Macedon, Babylon or Rome by 100AD

Persia:
1. Control the cores of 5 civilizations by 500BC
OR
2. Control 40% of the world's territory (or whatever the furthest extent of their empire would be) by 500BC
OR
3. Control the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World by 500BC
AND
4. Have a total of 15000 culture by 0AD
AND
5. Have an army of 200 units by 100AD

Persia wasn't the best, but I rather like Israel's options 1 2 and 4.
 
Number 2 for Israel isn't very good, mostly because it's just building a good defense and waiting it out.
 
I think UHV for Athens could be like:
Build a dozen wonders.
Settle (or maybe conquere but I'm more like settle) a city in Spain, Italy, France or something like that collonies stuff.
Have more owls than wonders in Athens... =)
Be the first to discover some techs (what we have in RFC already).
Be the first to adopt a democratic civic.
 
And Isreal lost Jerusalam.... A LOT

For the most part, UHVs consist of 2 historical conditions and 1 unhistorical condition. Some countries do not abide by this rule, but usually they do.
 
Athens:

Ensure no non-Greek (Anyone but Athens and Sparta at this point) culture is in Greece by 478 B.C.
Have the highest Culture in the world by X (IDK when, but they did have lots of culture)
Control the entire Greek mainland 406 B.C. (Peloponnesian war gone backwards)
 
Assyria.

I've played it.

The Assyria in this game is technically the Middle Assyrian Empire, 1392-934 BC. This is not the enormous Neo-Assyrian Empire that died in 612-609 BC, nor the cruder Old Assyrian Empire that preceded it. The Assyrians were noted for their efficient army and well-ordered (though often harsh) society. These characteristics helped them survive the Bronze Age Collapse that brought down most other Eastern Mediterranean and Middle-Eastern Bronze Age societies between 1200 BC and 900 BC - including Mycenae, the Httites, and even Egypt. You start before the Fall, you reign through the tumult (you're mostly on the edges but will have to hold off Sea People in the Levant and Anatolia) and your UHV needs to be achieved by 934 (better 950) BC.

UHV 1 has to be Conquest. King of the Four Corners of the World, an Akkadian-derived title referring to northern Subartu (Assyria), western Martu (Levant), eastern Elam (Iran) and southern Sumer. RFC GW already has defined regions encompassing these, although it would be better to define separate Subartu and Sumer regions in order to force the player to both control Sumeria and also settle a separate northern city (I have Nineveh in mind), rather than catch-all "Mesopotamia". Middle Assyria rarely used the title, but these were always areas their kings wanted to control.

Assyria spawns in 1396 BC, and a reasonable deadline for UHV 1 would be "by 1250 BC" or "in 1250 BC" (right in the middle of Shalmaneser's reign). There is no challenging historical date we can pick, but using the initial army and a little tactical thinking it should be possible (on Monarchy) to conquer three Corners and settle the fourth, in that time. In fact 1300 BC is possible if Elam has collapsed or was conquered, whereupon every city in Elam flips.This means that the player may only need to conquer southern Mesopotamia and the Levant and train one Settler. However, the UHV has to recognise that if Elam is alive then there may be a long war in the east, plus on higher levels of difficulty you will need to build replacement units because losses will be higher.

Edit: Actually a 2-stage UHV 1 seems more challenging: you need to hold the Corners by 1250 BC and in 1150 BC. That should be too early for anyone to have finished UHV 2 (if not, UHV 2 is the one that needs tweaking), so the "in" clause shouldn't cause an issue. This would stop people gaming UHV 2 by dumping regions on their neighbours to speed up science.

UHV 2 will be Science. Assyria is well equipped to do research, if Assyria, Babylon and Ur are properly developed. From the earlier civs, only Minoa has a major technological race and the AI generally fails to progress far with it. Assyria is one civ that even the AI seems to do well with, technologically! The UHV should require the player to stretch a little, and should punish players that have too many cities. The choice is between "first to discover ..." and "discover ... by 950 BC". Record Keeping (need Herbalism, Alphabet, Writing, Code of Laws), Tyranny (same as Record Keeping) and Construction (need Masonry, Alphabet and Mathematics) seem good, but need playtesting. I'd like to include a military goal but didn't want to make it too hard. If we need to give the player a proper workout, Military Science (Herbalism, Polytheism, Mythology, Storytelling, Alphabet, Writing, Code of Laws, Tyranny, Citizenship, Philosophy) could replace Tyranny in the list (in fact you need Tyranny for Military Science). We need it tough enough so a player who beelines it might get there but would need to skip useful techs along the way. I favour "discover ... by 950 BC".

UHV 3
will be ... something else. Something difficult. Culture is in the air for Assyria, so no arbitrary Culture goal. Conquest is easy for Assyria; even demanding expansion to or beyond the borders of the later Neo-Assyrian Emprire is within reach - although Stability may bring it down. But RFC GW seems more forgiving of poor Stability than vanilla RFC. Besides, UHV 1 was miitary. Either way, if you want Conquest or Domination, play Conquest or Domination. It needs to be something Assyria would struggle with. Have Open Borders with every other surviving civ in 950 BC, say, with at least Cautious (all two or three of them ... yeah). Problem is, I kinda hate "in" UHVs - it means you must play till that date arrives; you have litte scope to demonstrate excellence. Hence the existence of "virtual UHVs" where "I had it in 800 BC but had to wait til the UHV came around in 500 BC". So maybe change it to "before" 950 BC. If in any year you have Cautious OB with everyone, tick!

The Unique Power needs to change. Assyria enslaves a ridiculous number of barb units! After a while I started killing most of the unwanted Workers. So, first, barb units need to be immune to the Assyrian power (you can kill 'em but you can't tame 'em), and second, instead of enslaving them as Workers, they should be recruited to the Assyrian army as whatever unit type they are! They would come in as raw recruits without any XPs or promotions, but over time you would be able recruit e.g. Bowmen, War Elephants, etc, to your ranks. This is similar to what already happens when you destroy a Worker - it is recreated as a Worker for you; but with your UP a military unit would still be a military unit. Oh yes - if the unit is hosting a Great General, the GG would not be lost but would stay with the unit.

Edited to add (26/2/20): Got a rough start bench testing my proposed UHVs today. Babylon and Elam had both planted useless cities in my core. Razed them, of course. The double razing penaltly spiked my Stability and the diversion slowed me down, and I captured Aleppo to complete the Corners for UHV 1 in 1252 BC - literally at the last moment. All seemed to be going well until I collapsed in 1188 BC. :blush: :lol: So, hmm, maybe I just won't test-play starts where I have to raze enemy cities built in my core. And maybe I'll allow a little more time to conquer the Corners, because, sure you can get 'em all by 1250 BC, I've proved it; but what's the point if the dead weight of all those unhappy cities collapses you? 1200 BC should be soon enough.
 
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I'm not sure what we should do with the Assyrians. They're certainly weird as they spawn at the beginning of the IRL Middle Assyrian Empire, have a Neo-Assyrian LH and have the Old Assyrian Empire in their dynamic names. Representing both the Middle- and the Neo-Assyrian Empires with them would be nice, mostly for balance reasons. Just have to make the AI actually expand into Egypt somehow... I definitely want the player to do that, anyways.
I've already started working on a stability system in the rewrite, which will work mostly the same as the current one except for some smaller details and expansion stability. That will be determined by population in core and foreign territories. I'll try to make it a bit less forgiving for large empires.
And I agree on the need of a UP change. Maybe the RFCW slave concept could be borrowed, and their UP could just be doubling the chance to generate slaves? The unit flipping one sounds a bit OP, but it could also help the AI conquer the Neo-Assyrian Empire so I'm not sure. Or even both could work: adding slave units and replacing them with unit recruiting for the Assyrians.
 
Just have to make the AI actually expand into Egypt somehow... I definitely want the player to do that, anyways.

If you can make the AI do that then you will have achieved Rhye's own ambition for the mod! :bowdown: Civs failing to expand was a major reason he shrank the map. I think the key would be a adding new driver for the AI, similar to the Settler Map and War Map (possibly driven from the War Map), basically giving each AI a strong "desire" to own certain regions. Just like in SoI, civs should also be given hidden modifiers making them more or less likely to e.g. OB, vassalise to, or make war on, certain others. In combination, that could be enough.

I like your idea of bringing core population into the Stability equation; this is similar to most other modern RFCs (DoC has taken this concept to extremes) but you'll need to be careful as in some cases *cough*Persia*cough* the civ's growth depends on swallowing an initially much larger, stronger and more populous neighbour. Their Core needs to change, after their spawn, to include the areas they need to conquer.

The keynotes for Assyria are growth, development and stability. Followed by a collapse for the AI by 600 BC, to make way for Persia.

I've actually developed my notion for UHV 1 further - instead of just an arbitrary drop-dead year for UHV 1, I think Assyria should have to still control those regions when it achieves UHV 2. That way you need to develop your empire so that it can tech rapidly while huge. Some people might try to "game" the UHV mechanic by dropping Elam and Levant to focus on tech then recapturing them when about to achieve UHV 2, but hey, Assyria also had periods of expansion and contraction so they'd just be replicating RL history. :lol:

For Assyria, I've realised Cyprus should be included in the territory requirement - thus forcing the player to develop seafaring technologies they might prefer to skip.

The Assyrians are a marvellous civ to play for expansion and military campaigns. Although their UU seems uninspiring, it's just what they need to keep their momentum up and capture the powerful, well-developed cities they need to drive their economy. Their starting army of Swords and Rams is a pretty big hint. I had no problem conquering from Anatolia to the borders of India and from the Causasus to Israel before the 1200-900 barb period started, but my brief excurson into Egypt after 900 - capturing barb Tanis and razing another barb city that was cramping Tanis and Memphis - took my Stability to -38, with a downward arrow beside it. Egypt had collapsed long ago, but my excursion did bring me into contact with Nubia, which was Pleased to be gifted Tanis. I gave my two Arabian cities to Israel, bringing them to Friendly. By 590 BC my borders were pretty much where they had been in 1200 and my Stability was back up to -23, except that Persia had spawned and flipped Shush - and for Stability reasons I had let them keep it. Ashur and Babylon were slowly swamping it with their Culture anyway.

Capturing Egypt is certainly possible; holding it ... not so much. You'd need to vassalise Egypt (or Nubia if Egypt is dead or collapses during the war) then hand them back their cities before you collapse from your own overexpansion - thus repeating RL history. Assyria made Egypt a client state.

Looking ahead from Assyria to the UHVs for Persia, RL Assyria dominated the Middle East until just before Persia erupted into the area. (The wars to achieve this exhausted its manpower reserves and left it vulnerable despite its size on the map.) The upstart Bablyonian and Medean empires that destroyed it were relatively short-lived before falling to Persia. What's needed is a dynamic that keeps AI Assyria strong and fairly stable until Persia spawns, then gradually collapses it to encourage/allow Persia to move its core into Mesopotamia. Persia's initial cities are stunted; it can't grow huge until it owns those giant Mesopotamian cities, and having played Assyria, I can testify that Persia's 8-strength War Elephants and 5-strength (yuck) Immortals simply don't fare well against 8-strength Assyrian Heavy Swords, 8-strength Assyrian War Elephants and Assyria's massive unit production!

Decline and fall of Assyria. I think Babylonia should be scripted to respawn around 650 BC, representing Nabopolasser's Neo-Babylonian Empire (25 years earlier than historical, but Sumer was already in revolt before Nabbie came on the scene and we can't delay it too long). Persia (spawns 674 BC) can stand in for the Medes. Losing Babylon, Ur and Shush (and any other Iranian cities) in the space of just five or six turns should seriously dent Assyrian stability. Add a couple of scripted revolts in Ashur between 650 BC and 600 BC (if the city is controlled by Assyria), to represent dynastic contention, and maybe even a scripted military decay (removing random military units to represent the empire's manpower exhaustion) to make it more difficult to hold the periphery. The final blow would be moving the Core west into Levant in 614-608 BC, leaving Ashur out of it - your new Core stability mechanic would make this especially damaging - representing the siege and taking of Ashur in 614 and Nineveh in 612, and Ashur-uballit II's last stand in Harran in 609. This would be challenging for a human player to survive; the AI should topple like a house of cards.

(Edit: Babylonia's Bowmen were good units in their time but probably won't cut it against later military units such as War Elephants which they won't have the tech to build. But they will probably flip some modern units when they respawn and we want AI Persia to stomp AI Babylonia once Assyria is out of the picture, so work is needed on a mechanic to ensure that.)

In fact, scripted respawns are something the mod needs. There are periods when you're playing in a wasteland of barbs and Independents, that should be filled with resurgent AI civs! (I know, one thing at a time ...)

Edited to add: original RFC's TL/BR areas may actually be more flexible for RFCGW's purposes than adopting, say, RFC Europe and SoI's static province system, because you can redefine the areas dynamically to enforce desirable historical effects. The expansion of Persia's Core and the westward move of Assyria's above being examples. RFCE does a little of this (for example to shrink the Byzantines) but the provinces are atomic, which is historically incorrect.
 
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I'm not sure what we should do with the Assyrians. They're certainly weird as they spawn at the beginning of the IRL Middle Assyrian Empire, have a Neo-Assyrian LH and have the Old Assyrian Empire in their dynamic names. Representing both the Middle- and the Neo-Assyrian Empires with them would be nice, mostly for balance reasons.

Yeah there are 3 choices for when to have the Assyrians spawn.
You have the Old Kingdom (who expanded a little bit, and then collapsed)
The Middle Kingdom (which expanded a bit more, and than contracted back to its core)
The Neo-Assyrian Kingdom (which rapidly expanded and then rapidly collapsed).

The Old Kingdom would be a problematic spawn date as it would have them spawning before the Babylonians, plus is it was never major regional player.
The Neo-Assyrian Kingdom would probably be too short on turns if they alone were represented by the Assyrians.
Thus I went for the Middle Kingdom, which is the start of a continuous Assyrian Kingdom, even if it did include a period of stagnation.

I certainly agree that Assyrians UHVs should encourage a very expansionist and militaristic style of play.

I've already started working on a stability system in the rewrite, which will work mostly the same as the current one except for some smaller details and expansion stability.
That's good. I don't think the stability system has been touched since the original conversion of the Rhys R&F World mod into RFCGW. When I looked at the code, a lot of stability modifiers such as tech and civics were no longer relevant.

I like your idea of bringing core population into the Stability equation; this is similar to most other modern RFCs (DoC has taken this concept to extremes)
Agreed. Just make sure it is less harsh than the DOC system, where you can collapse even if you are staying resolutely historical in conquests (I still rue my collapse in my Roman game :badcomp:)


By the way @bluepotato , let me know if you want any help adding any more UHVs into the game. Autumn Leafs UHV guides have got me enthused to get UHVs for all the civs done.
 
Israel.

I see a suggestion that this was going to be Rhye's OCC in this mod. Unfortunately, having played Israel now (without UHVs, just trying to get a feel for it), Jerusalem makes a rather poor OCC city. By 428 BC, mine was up to population 7, after I Pastured the Cows and Farmed the three plains tiles in its BFC. Sadly, after discovering Sailing I found that the Dead Sea was not big enough to allow me to build a Harbor. I got a little more Food by reverting to Redistribution (+25% Food in the capital), and could get a little more again if someone gifted me Machinery so that I could build Windmills. The city maxes out at 11 population, and at this point I can't see a way beyond that except by the glacially slow accretion of Great Merchants. Jerusalem is never going to be a big city and its trade prospects are mediocre. It does have good producton.

In my game, I had Tyre (which flipped to me) in my BFC to the north and someone (probably Phoenicia) settled Sidon on the Suez ithmus (I renamed it to Suez when I finally captured it), so I'm certainly going to restart that game and not settle Jerusalem on the spot, just to see what happens. However, unless carefully written, any UHVs for Israel are probably going to involve certain big buildings in Jerusalem, and it's ahistorical for the Jews not to want Jerusalem as their capital, so let's work from that assumption for now.

What are the options? Bearing in mind that Israel spawns in 1052 BC (Actually I spawned in 1044 BC), with 8 years to the turn initially and 6 years to the turn from 1000 BC. Bearing in mind the limitations of the location. Bearing in mind the UP (every Israeli unit starts with City Garrison I) and the UB (the Koten grants every unit built in the city Guerilla I) and the UU (+25% on Hills), which strongly suggests Rhye (or EdmundIronside) had defensive stubborness in mind.

Option 1:
Solomon the Builder (I).
Build the Temple of Solomon by ... some date. It can only be built in the Jewish Holy City (we mustn't specify the city's location since if we spread Judaism to more than one city before converting, the Holy City may not be Jerusalem; in my first game, it's Tyre), so it's not like anyone else will build it unless you lose the Holy City first. The secular dating is too soon to generate a Great Prophet. But our in-game avatars are devout Jews and accept the phenomenon of the Missing Years. 832 BC is about 35 turns, which is not quite impossible. Worth testing; if it is possible to generate a GP in that time, we may have a winner!​

Option 2:
Solomon the Builder (II).
Build some number or some list of Wonders in Jerusalem, sort of a poor man's Babylon. Actual number or the items on the list yet to be determined.​

Option 3:
Solomon the Trader.
Acquire or get by trade some number and/or variety of resources or money. Unfortunately both the Harappans and Phoenicians already have variations on this one, so I'm just throwing it in here to see if someone can come up with a new angle.​

Option 4:
The Diaspora (I).
Spread Judaism to some percentage of the world. We can certainly do this. Send forth the Missionaries! Get OB with your neighbours, put your guys in boats for overseas - spread the Word! Probably best not set a time limit for this one. It could take a while, depending how popular we decide Judaism should be and how much of the world is Barbarian or Independent and hence unavailable.​

Option 5:
The Diaspora (II).
Build a city in every corner of the world. Specifically we want Israeli cities in Europe, Africa and Asia; probably more, regions yet to be defined. Resettlement is the Civic we need for this one. You can't conquer them or convert someone else's cities, you have to settle them yourself and put Judaism into them. And keep them! Good defensive units will be handy here, and a good economy so you don't go broke paying the maintenance.​

Option 6:
Revolt of the Maccabees.
Conquest. Not really something that RFC-GW's Israelis are tailored for, but having Israel carve out a pocket empire within some carefully outlined region is historical. The Maccabbee is a good unit: 5 strength, a natural +25% on Hills, plus Israel's UP and UB bonuses. Worth considering, although the game is already well provided with militant civs.​

Option 7:
Crowd Sourcing - it's a thing ...
Your ideas go here!​

Edited to add:

Great Prophet generated in 926 BC. So it's easy to build the Temple by 832 BC, if you're willing to forgo pretty much everything else. If this is to be a UHV, we need to think up a curve ball to make it more of a challenge!

Spoiler Zoroaster in Jerusalem :
Temple Prophet.png
 
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