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Unit class combat bonuses?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by player1 fanatic, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. player1 fanatic

    player1 fanatic Fanatic

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    What are intrinsic combat bonuses that some unit classes have over other.

    There are some I've noticed:

    Melee gets +10 combat bonus vs anti-cavalry

    Anti-cavalry gets +10 combat bonus vs light and heavy cavalry.

    Anything else?

    I'm kind puzzled that this is not covered anywhere in Civilopeida. Same for support, flanking, fortify and terrain bonuses.
     
  2. Heklios

    Heklios Chieftain

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    I totally agree with you. Some crucial information is often either hard to find, written in the wrong places, or simply not written anywhere at all.

    For instance the bonus you mention for melee VS anti-cavalry can only be randomly spotted while selecting one of your melee units and hovering over an enemy cavalry. You would assume this would clearly be written in the Tech Tree, in your Unit Production Tab, in Civilopedia, and on the Unit itself when selected. But no. A warm welcome here to smooth out the learning curve of new players.

    But it gets worse, you can never see your DEFENSIVE bonuses, since selecting one of your units and hovering over an enemy one only displays OFFENSIVE bonuses. So I end up having to hover over fortified barbarians in Woods on a Hill, to see what bonuses I would get if I was defending in such a location. Also, good luck remembering if you've been fortified for one turn or two, since they stack.

    On the flip side you get some easy info hammered into your eyes indefinitely like the simple 2 tiles range aura of Generals that is permanently stamped around them with a thick, ugly, white line that resembles a placeholder marker that would never make it out to the full release game.

    Go figure.
     
  3. oedali

    oedali King

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    Yes and the whole melee vs anti cavalry causes confusion.. I was playing Greece and got the 50% production bonus to melee policy card thinking I can now spam Hoplites, only to realize they don't benefit from it..

    On visual side of things, I would love to find a way to turn off the religion lens upon selecting a missionary - all that coloring makes it hard to understand the terrain
     
  4. Heklios

    Heklios Chieftain

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    Yeah, the +50% production to "MELEE & RANGED" is specifically for Units of the "Melee Class" and "Ranged Class" which does NOT include ANTI-CAVALERY Class (Spearmen) or SIEGE Class (Catapult).

    Obviously, the casual player (which is the category who actually makes videogames economically sustainable) will assume "Well, Spearmen attack in melee range and Catapult attack from afar therefore are ranged".

    Something as counterintuitive as this should be presented to the player in a very clear and non ambiguous manner.

    The last thing you wanna do as a game, is to offer poisoned, vague, open-to-interpretation rules, where the difficulty is to understand them only to realize passed this is a very simple set of mechanics with monotonous gameplay.

    I hate to bring Blizzard in here, but the catch phrase of Hearthstone nailed it. "Deceptively simple, Insanely fun".
     
  5. Wr4ith

    Wr4ith Chieftain

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    Which is really ridiculous because AGOGE means exactly the hard spartan hoplite training xD I totally agree with this auto religion lenses problem during moving religious units. It is absolutely useless, I change to another unit every time to see any detail on the map.
     
  6. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Regarding unit class names, they should go with what they did for cavalry unit classes

    Heavy melee: warriors-infantry
    Light melee: spears-bazooka

    Heavy range: catapults-artillery
    Light ranged: slingers-machine guns

    There was a similr problem in civ 5, melee could mean
    -all units that melee atracked (including cavs)
    -all 'slow' melee (warrior, spear, mech inf, etc)
    -warriors, swords, longswords (exclude spears and gunpowder)
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  7. skyclad

    skyclad Prince

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    Great points in the thread so far!
    Id like to ask if Anyone knows, how to trigger Flanking bonus and how big it is?
     
  8. KmDubya

    KmDubya King

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    Really the spearman line doesn't benefit from any of the production cards?????

    Didn't see that one coming. Makes the whole spearmen VS horsemen even more one sided.
     
  9. Wr4ith

    Wr4ith Chieftain

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    I would like to know also what 'siege' unit means, ie they must have some sort of bonuses for city attacking, right?
     
  10. player1 fanatic

    player1 fanatic Fanatic

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    Back to original topic of combat bonuses::

    Any there any other class specific combat bonuses exempt ones I've listed above?
     
  11. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Light ranged units- -75% str v district defenses (walls), no ZOC
    Heavy ranged (siege) units. -75% str v units, no ZOC

    Cavalry (heavy and light). Ignore ZOC
     
  12. Dark_Jedi06

    Dark_Jedi06 "Deus ex Machina."

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    Just had this problem in my latest game; I'm getting overrun by Scythian horseman and I get the tech for pikeman thinking I could spam them out to counter...but nope, 8-10 turns in my highest production cities and now I can't build cheaper spearmen either. Was shaping up to be a really fun game, but ended up calling it quits because the Scythian horseman carpet of doom was basically insurmountable.
     
  13. KmDubya

    KmDubya King

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    Pikes are really expensive to build or upgrade to, on top of that they aren't that great. Sure they'll trash horsemen but they better since they cost twice as many cogs and come an era later. Against same era Knights the pikes come later in the tech tree, cost more cogs to build and don't really have an advantage at 41+10 vs 48.

    I find it better to just keep cheap spearmen as horse fodder in front and place crossbows behind. Crossbows kick ass. Swordsmen aren't bad against horsemen especially if braced or on defensive terrain, just use the archer/crossbows to shoot the horses.

    I've had a few games where Scythia started near me and had better terrain so they were also out teching me. The key was defendable terrain and mountains keeping them in only five or so tile wide front, with open ground she'll just run around and get You really want to eradicate her before she upgrades to cavalry. Cavalry are a real threat to over run everything and really hard to stop with earlier units.
     
  14. player1 fanatic

    player1 fanatic Fanatic

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    Are you sure about this?
    I do not see stat changes for range combat in these scenarios.

    EDIT:
    I see -17 combat penalty for ranged units against walls.
    And -17 penalty for bomberdment units against units.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  15. Lucius_

    Lucius_ King

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    Idk about exact numbers, but I do know ranged units do very little damage to a city with walls. Siege units do massive damage. Vice versa for units. I tend to agree that -75%/+75% str is probable. It's definitely a sizeable difference.
     
  16. Nefelia

    Nefelia Prince

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    Will have to verify, but I am fairly sure it is a flat -17, not -75%.

    With the way the new combat system works, a difference of 17 has the same impact. The results of combat between (20 vs 3) and (120 vs 103) are the same.
     

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