unit experience and leader traits

[suspectchin]

I normally play civ 4 with a really turtle style, creating a strong economy and tech and almost never going to war. However, I've been wanting to try and do a few games as a warmonger and with military focus as I always thought it would be fun and assumed id be bad at it. I was hoping to get some thoughts and tips on the most effective leader traits to get the highest experience units.

I tried a few games out to get a feel for the different civilizations. I use monarch difficulty and play using 30 civs on smartmap default settings 2-5 continents. In my trial games I never advanced past the medieval age and had mixed results trying different strategies.

My main question is determining the best leader traits to enable fast promotions. I'm curious how most people feel about the Imperial trait. I found it was useful to get multiple great generals and plant them in the same cities for +2 exp a piece for every new unit, but I often hear this trait mentioned as one of the weakest in the game. Could it make up for not having aggressive/protective traits if you had imperial/charismatic like Cyrus? Or is having Agg/Charismatic or protective/chm more effective in the long term. Also, playing as japan, does Agg/Pro stack on all units produced from muskets to modern age?

Also on the topic of waging war im curious how people take advantage of the ancient/classical unique units. I find in my games that I am able to found 3-4 cities and create a couple wonders before I am close enough to a nation that has a city in a good location to take. By this point I have a lot of units waiting on my border and sucking up my money with no one to slaughter. Going to war earlier just seems to over extend myself and be counter productive. This is playing with 30 civs I cant imagine how early conquest is viable with less than this.

Any advice or input would be appreciated.

 

[madscientist]

If you have Beyond the Sword expansion pack I would take Boudica as you are having trouble getting through the middle ages. She will give the best early start on what you want.

Cyrus is probably the next best. You ould need to go to early war to maximize the great generals. The unique unit is great for early war and taking enemy cities guarded by archer, just be carefull of spears.

Churchhill will get the protective promotions on archers/gunpowder units and can get really highly promoted units, especially if you can settle several great generals in the heroic epic city. Then you will be producing some truely dangerous Redcoat units.

Tokugawa can build gunpowder units that have combat I, city garrison I, and drill I before any other promotions are added. So to answer your question, yes the protective and agressive benefits compound. Again, you need to be able to get into the gunpowder era to maximize this benefit.

 

[MrCynical]

For sheer number of (useful) promotions, you can't do better than Boudica. Combat I from aggressive, lower experience rquirements from charismatic and cheap barracks/stables. You can even through guerilla I on with the UB, though admittedly that's usually not much use. Run theocracy and vassalage and you can build level quad promoted mounted units anywhere, and that's even before you start with great generals.

Imperialistic is simply too poor in other respects, and will take a while to allow significantly higher level units to be built with military instructors.

 

[suspectchin]

Its not that I cant get to gunpowder I just always restart to try a new strategy/leader. I am normally near the top point wise and begin to think "this is fun but I wonder how it would be to have this trait/unit combination". Playing bts on marathon speed so it takes a few hours to get to this point. I just started playing civ 4 again about two weeks ago so have been browsing the forums and learning new tips then restarting to apply those. Also I am very unfamiliar with the mid game technologies. I end up getting a large classical army and a strong city base of 6 or so. Then its like "where to go from here". After getting catapults is it best to rush strait for crossbow/macemen or do you grab a couple other techs first in most cases?

 

[madscientist]

My feeling is I tech militarily as I see the othe Ais do it so tehre is not set structure. Fuedalism is generally the first Mideival tech I get because of the defensive longbows and Vassalage. Machinery is next mostly for the wind/water mills than the crossbows. Civil service follows to finish the techs for Macemen. Guild next so I can build grocers. Engineering is almost always last and usually through a trade. To be honest I worry more about teching to liberalism.

I forgot about Bouduca's cheap Barracks do she is definitely the way to go.

I guess Ghengis needs to me mentioned also. Cheap barracks, UB give +4 experience points to horse units, and double great general points. But I still think Boudicas the way to go.

I understand the marathon issue, that's the speed I play at. 30 AIs!!!! It would take me a week to get through the classical era with my computer.

 

[Belisar]

Imperialistic is simply too poor in other respects, and will take a while to allow significantly higher level units to be built with military instructors.

Imperialistic is not a poor trait. The 50% bonus on hammers for settler production is huge during early expansion. You can chop your first 2 settlers very quick and this means your overall growth curve is far better.
The military aspects of the trait may come later than for example charismatic or agressive but the trait itself can be powerfull.

 

[Polycrates]

BRENNUS!!!!

Charismatic gives cheap promos to everyone, Spiritual lets you shift into Theocracy/Vassalage whenever you like for even more promotiony goodness (plus it's just generally the best trait). Combined, you can get 2 promo units out of cities that don't even have a barracks (for civwide mobilisation), and 3 promo cavalry units with barracks+stable.
Brennus and Cyrus have the best-promoted cavalry units, and now that spies can instantly take out city defences (and cavalry units get flanking damage on siege), mounted units are really significantly boosted. Aggressive only gives good melee and gunpowder, which I think is a bit limiting.

Plus Gallics and Dun units get Guerrilla promos, which are situational but far more useful than they're generally given credit for.

 

[madscientist]

BRENNUS!!!!


Brennus and Cyrus have the best-promoted cavalry units, and now that spies can instantly take out city defences (and cavalry units get flanking damage on siege), mounted units are really significantly boosted. .

Why do you think Brennus has the best promoted cavalry units??? Or Cyrus for that matter (his UU is great though, but they are chariots).

Don't get wrong, Brennus is an excellent suggestion, one I did consider mentioning.

I think the Kahns have hte best mounted units, especially Ghengis if he can settle a few GGs in cities with gers.

 

[Polycrates]

Why do you think Brennus has the best promoted cavalry units??? Or Cyrus for that matter (his UU is great though, but they are chariots).

Charismatic is the only trait that assists with mounted unit XP, so Charismatic cavalry are generally going to be the highest-promoted.
Brennus' Spiritual trait has a particularly good synergy with this, since Theocracy and Vassalage both give comparatively better effects to Charismatic leaders. Being able to switch in and out of them at will lets you have periods of running both at once (and Spi helps greatly with spreading a religion for Theo as well) without jeopardising your chances of keeping up economically and with production. Running Theo+Vassalage the whole game is a recipe for having your lovely 6 promo knights charging at enemy Mech Inf.

Cha+Barracks+Stables+Theo+Vassalage=9xp=3 promos straight away, and only 4xp away from the fourth.
Cha+Theo+Vassalage=2 promos straight away for cavalry even in cities without a barracks or a stables, making Cha much better for producing good mounted units en masse civwide when you really want to mobilise (again, an advantage for Spiritual since it cuts down the time you need to be in those civics).
Settled GGs are particularly effective with Charismatic too (hence the choice of Cyrus), and a Heroic Epic/West Point city with Brennus or Cyrus should be quite easily capable of producing level 6 cavalry straight out of the gates (that's combat 5/COMMANDO cavalry produced en masse).

I think the Kahns have hte best mounted units, especially Ghengis if he can settle a few GGs in cities with gers.

The ger puts the Mongols level with a Charismatic leader as far as getting to the third promo (barracks+stables+3xp), but 2xp behind for the fourth promo and 5xp behind for the fifth, etc. Past the Keshik (which is a fairly mediocre UU anyway), Cyrus will always have better cavalry than Genghis with the same number of GGs, and much better cavalry than Kublai.
The Khans are still more melee/gunpowder-focused with aggressive (with these troop types generally superior to their charismatic equivalents), just with the ability to almost keep up with the charismatic guys on cavalry too, for a more rounded force than aggressive civs are usually capable of.

 

[Spikerocks101]

Where do I begin... I have BTS and Warlords, k?
Any how.... I did quite a bit of comparison with buildings, wonders, traits and a little bit of units. I use unrestricted leaders option.

To start, I'll do the best, Archer:
The best civ for archers is Native Americans since they have the Totem Pole, which gives +3 exp. if you combine that with church hill, you get: Barracks +Totem Pole +Vassalage +Theocracy =3+3+2+2=10 which is 3 pros already+Def 1 and Drill 1. A mighty defending Longbowman or a strong Crossbowman.

Melee:
Anything with Aggressive is good. Chr + Agr = Boudica. Only Celts have any melee things so stick with them. I played with her and Rome and got one hell of a Praetorian, usely arm him with Cover and City Raid for a +45% vs. archers. Samurais with her an't bad either.

Siege:
Well, build the spainish Citadel for +5 exp and be chr. You can be imp or protective if you want to build the cidadel faster. 2+2+3+5=12, 3 pros right away and 1 exp away from 4.

Mounted:
Mongolian Ger is the best with the +4exp. Just get a cyrus for chr and imp. Nothing new.

Gunpowder:
Ahh... Tokugawa for 3 free starting pros. Use him with the ottomans for erly musket advantage, england for industrial advantage or U.S.A. for late advantage. if not Tokugawa, then Churchill for the pro traits better then the agr trait.

Air Units:
Build airport and agian, Cyrus.

Water Units:
Cyrus again but with Vikings back bone. You'll get Navigation 1 from there trading post.

Other Points:
Imp plus great wall for super great generals.
Build Forge+Factory+Power=+100% prodution, as good as the Heroic Epic
Pentigon + Westpoint is +6 exp.
Great Generals can only give a one shot of 20 exp, but can attach to a city for a life time of exp.
i learned, only need one warrior guarding a city in early game BEFORE war, has huge unit cost.
Mt. Rushmore+Jail is -50% war worry and with Statue of Zeus, your enemies get 100% more war worry.
BUILD HOSPITALS for it can give you the red cross which gives a free medic 1 in the city it was built.
Walls+Castle+Chichen Itza gives 125% more defense.
Bunkers and Bomb Shelters are useless...
For Water units: Drydocks(+4EXP)
For Meele and Archer:Barracks(+3EXP)
For Mounted: Stables(+2EXP)+Barracks(+3EXP)=(5EXP)
For Air Units: Airport(+3EXP)
Heres a helper with Experience Levels and Chr
Level EXP CHR-EXP
1 0 0
2 2 2
3 5 4
4 10 8
5 17 13

Done

 

[KMadCandy]

Tokugawa can build gunpowder units that have combat I, city garrison I, and drill I before any other promotions are added.

toku can even draft gunpowder units that have combat 1, CG 1, and drill 1 straight out of the box with no exp at all .