Unit list

[Berenthor]

Depending on the civ, you could also get a different promotion (that we make it civ dependant if it is forest or hill or ice/tundra, or whatever). I think Elda King is right about the bomb. Maybe just leave it out and when we go with the King Units (an idea I really like) we can give Saruman some kind of spell to this effect.

 

[T_F]

IDK about the civ-specific promotions for rangers - we don't want a civ with great forest rangers to start in a desert.

Saruman should have some sort of epic destruction spell, especially if Isengard goes Evil. WAIT - IDEA: King units get two major abilities. King units for Neutral nations should have one permanent spell, and one that changes based on alignment - one option for Good and one for Evil. (None for Neutral since we pretty much want everybody polarized as far as I can tell, though it might be an option.)

 

[Sengir]

That IS a good idea, I like it and think it's not that hard to implement (though we might decide some stuff is going to wait until a second release)

 

[xmen510]

That is an interesting idea.

 

[Berenthor]

I like that idea. Actually, there is a mod component for FFH2 which is called flavourstart and gives preferences for civs to be placed on the map: elves near/in forests, dwarves near hills etc. I haven't checked out how it actually works and if it is SDK changes (I think so) but it is something to keep in mind for a later release.

 

[T_F]

That'll be really great.

 

[xmen510]

Perhaps Elves could have the Forest Defence Bonus for free. Then it would be quicker for them to upgrade the movement too.

Also, although it may seem obvious, you should probably add to your list:

Worker
Settler

 

[Berenthor]

Added it to the list, forgot about those . As for the bonus: you can give a promotion per civilization in FFH2 if I remember correctly. I think also the racial promotion for elves might incorporate this movement bonus and then this racial promotion is given to all elven civs (it is just a promotion called Elf which means the unit is an elve and gives some bonusses or disadvantages. There are also others like demon, undead, dwarf, dragon, etc.) This works quite well, we don't have to do anything for that, except maybe add some or remove some or edit them.

 

[xmen510]

Sounds great. It is good that we decided to go with FFH2 as a base after all. It seems to have taken a lot of the work out of this for you guys.

 

[T_F]

Yup. So should we now focus on what racial promotions we need and what they do?
Lemme think...

Human? They always seem left out somehow...
Elf - forest defense, forest movement, -something
Dwarf - hills defense, hills movement, -something
Maia - ? +Holy damage? (do we want such a thing?)
Vala? - ? +Major Holy damage? (do we even want Vala units ever?)
Orc - ? susceptible to Holy damage?
Troll - ?
Ent - more susceptible to fire damage, ?
Balrog - +Fire damage?
Uruk? (Different from Orc?) - ?
Anything else?

 

[xmen510]

Are we doing this as a general broad Racial Bonus or are we doing this as a Civ Bonus?

I don't think that Maiar and Valar unit will be in, at least in the core game. Maybe in scenarios. I like a lot of your suggestions though.

I was thinking about "Evil" Civs. I think maybe they should lose access to the Worker Unit and instead gain a Slave unit that is slower to produce (Build improvements), and perhaps gets used up after it builds an improvement other than roads. They should be cheaper to produce however. What do you think?

Orcs and Uruks like to swarm, so maybe they could have the Flanking promotion.

Ents should be weak against Fire and Axes. Trolls perhaps could be stronger within their own cultural borders and weaker without to show their weakness in sunlight, but stronger in the darkness.

I think that Humans should get a City defence bonus.

 

[T_F]

Maybe Trolls get a version of the Elohim's Homeland promo.

Flanking seems fine, though that seems like more of a cavalry promo.

Slaves - cheap, slow workers that you have a chance to gain from combat, maybe? Like the idea.
Maybe it's a side bonus of the Slavery civic, which the Shadow starts with and is only available to Evil-aligned civs. Shadow is disallowed worker but gets to start off with two slaves.

 

[xmen510]

Good ideas. I just updated the post with the idea that they get used up after building improvements other than roads.

 

[Sengir]

I like the slaves idea, but we need to make sure to balance it properly (especially if they are used up after building anything but a road).

 

[Berenthor]

I wouldn't make slaves be used up, but maybe just let them work 25% or 50% slower (like in FFH2). I also wouldn't let them gain anything in combat. Just make them cheaper but slower, should be balanced enough I think. For the promotions: Ents for example can get forest bonusses but weakness against fire. Look at the racial promos from FFH2 and see if things there are usefull. I'll try to find them when I have the time and put them here.

 

[xmen510]

O.K. No permanent use of Slaves for improvements. Glad you like the concept of Slaves overall though. Perhaps that could be added to the Units list then.

 

[xmen510]

We also still have a few Units on the list in question:

Heavy Cavalry
Fireship
Ballista
Chariot

My Opinion on them:

Heavy Cavalry: Just have it as a Stronger version of the Cavalry Unit.
Fireship: Remove this one.
Ballista: Perhaps limit it, like a National Unit.
Chariot: Remove this one.

 

[Sengir]

Heavy Cav > I think we need some form of this, but we might want to change the name.
Fireship > No
Ballista >
Chariot > UU for some civ, not as basic unit

 

[T_F]

I don't remember chariots anywhere in Tolkien, so who would get them?
Fireship is fine as gone
Heavy Cav - maybe also a UU?
Ballista - I'm fine with National Unit, it could also be an Isengard UU instead of Catapult

Promo suggestions again:
Elf - forest defense, forest movement, -cave defense?
Dwarf - hills defense, hills movement, -something
Orc - Hell-terrain-equivalent defense, something (something like Flanking was suggested)
Troll - something like the Elohim's Homeland, maybe with some mountain/cave defense
Ent - more susceptible to fire damage (and ax damage if that's possible), forest defense and attack
Balrog - +Fire damage, some balrog-specific thing like we were talking about earlier
Uruk? (Different from Orc?) - +attack towards some specific class? +attack versus Humans?

 

[Sengir]

I seem to remember the Easterlings as having chariots, but I'm not quite sure.