Unit Request: Aztek/Mesoamerican Swordsman

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Well...you certainly aren't going to surprise anyone(In the ambush/stealth sense) on the battlefield with a weapon like that lol..

 

[Master Kodama]

He looks more Andean than Mesoamerican to me.

I like you're concept art for the swordsman, Shiro. I think the black feathers is a very nice touch. Someone should definitely make this.

On the subject of a more euro-style Aztec/Mesoamerican swordsman: well, I could see the Aztecs copying certain aspects of Spanish armament, but metal armor wouldn't be very effective in the heat of Central America. In fact, the invading Spanish started using the native cured/hardened, layered cotton armor because it was lighter and much more effective under the conditions they had to fight in. And metal armor didn't really stop atlatl darts all that well anyway.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I diffinitely think that the Macana-style(see Kal-El's "Knight" drawing above) should stay for the sword.

 

[Master Kodama]

I diffinitely think that the Macana-style(see Kal-El's "Knight" drawing above) should stay for the sword.

Heartily seconded. Shiro's sword is influenced by his Japanese heritage, methinks. And those nobby things on the handle look like they'd get in the way, and possibly be painful to the wielder.

Basically, the sword should be DOUBLE-EDGED and look like one of the following:
A) as depicted by Kal-el, very Aztec in appearance (although I've never heard the term Macana -- I've always heard maquahuitl, but maybe they're two different things );
B) squarish, like Cloud's ridiculously huge blade in FF7, only smaller, no holes, and flat on top -- that's right, you heard me, just squared off, like... a square -- and of course, double-edged;
or C) wide and leaf-shaped.
No hand guard, of course.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

The Macana were obsidian weapons(Knives or short "swords") used by the Azteks and Mayans. They were the main melee weapon in Mesoamerica.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

yeah
I really had noo idea what a aztec sword would look like
so hows this? its a little bad but it gives you an idea of what it would look like

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

close enough...

Looks like the Aztecs copied the spanish swords from the defeated Conquistidors, and added the curvyness of the Macana, creating their own unique swords..

 

[Master Kodama]

The Macana were obsidian weapons(Knives or short "swords") used by the Azteks and Mayans. They were the main melee weapon in Mesoamerica.

Ah, I see. It appears that Macana is the word the Spanish used, adapted from a non-Nahuatl speaking term. Macuahuitl is the name in Nahuatl (the language of the Aztecs). The Maya did use them post-classically, but I don't know what they called them.

Personally, I wouldn't call macuahuitl "knives." There were one-handed version as well as larger two-handed versions, but they were ususally paddle-shaped with blades on the sides, which isn't very knife-like -- more like an obsidian-edged cricket bat, but I think. Incidentally, the heavier two-handed macuahuitl could reportedly decapitate horses with a good, solid stroke. Obsidian may not be as strong or durable as iron, but it's MUCH sharper than people think -- before the perfection of laser technology doctors used obsidian for fine eye-surgery.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Where did the the Aztecs get the Obsidian from anyway, are there any volcanos in Mesoamerica?

 

[RedAlert]

Where did the the Aztecs get the Obsidian from anyway, are there any volcanos in Mesoamerica?

There's quite a few. A bunch on either side of the valley of Mexico (but about half way from there to either coast), and a whole chain of them extending from the southern Maya area down the pacific side of central america.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

um america and asia has volcanos on the pacific ocean coast "ring of fire"

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Thing is I probably learned that at school, and I wasn't paying attention, or I forgot...

Come on unit makers...you know you want to make this....look at the popular support for it...its ENORMIOUS....

 

[Master Kodama]

Not to mention that Shiro's concept art is looking pretty nifty. Although, he should probably have long sleeves and leggings (this goes for Kal-el's mounted knight as well). Historically, the Aztecs always went into combat fully covered, so as to maximize protection. Cotton armor is relatively light, so it woudln't weigh them down or hinder their movements to add the extra protection to their arms and legs. A look at Aztec depictions of warriors or good modern re-creations will confirm this. As for Kal-el's archer units on this subject, they don't look so authentically Aztec to me. 'Sides, the Aztecs tended to favor atlatls over bows.

So, anydangway, somebody needs to make this unit.

 

[blunt3d]

As for Kal-el's archer units on this subject, they don't look so authentically Aztec to me. 'Sides, the Aztecs tended to favor atlatls over bows.


Thats what i told them a while back... but as for the armor i think they would've probably started to wear animal skins layered over on another for more protection maybe armidillo,iguana,or cayman(crocidile). Those are some hard skinned animals found around centro america. Feathers would deffenitly be present along the uniform and i think they would stick to the sandal type shoes to let there feet breath in the hot humid tempratures not the full foot covered cloths/mokasin shown in the pictures.
sorry for spelling :\

 

[Master Kodama]

Thats what i told them a while back... but as for the armor i think they would've probably started to wear animal skins layered over on another for more protection maybe armidillo,iguana,or cayman(crocidile). Those are some hard skinned animals found around centro america. Feathers would deffenitly be present along the uniform and i think they would stick to the sandal type shoes to let there feet breath in the hot humid tempratures not the full foot covered cloths/mokasin shown in the pictures.
sorry for spelling :\

Hmm, true about the footgear -- they should probably be sandals. But I don't know if that would be difficult to do well or not.

As for the animal skin idea, I'm sure the Aztecs already knew how to tan leather. Probably, the reason didn't typically use leather for armor is because it does not breath very well, and cotton does; in the Mesoamerican heat, this is a very important consideration. The armor the Aztecs used, layerings of cured cotton, was sturdier than one might think -- in fact, I'm pretty sure that during the Renaissance in Europe common soldiers who couldn't afford metal breastplates sometimes wore cured and layered cotton and/or leather armor of a similar design. If well made and layered, it could probably stop very early musketballs (that is, they would wound but not kill). I think I may have already mentioned that the Spaniards themselves began using the local armor while in the New World, because their heavy metal plating would be just as likely to kill you in the oppressive wet heat as it would be to protect you. While leather isn't as bad as metal, I still think that Mesoamerican groups would have simply developed more advanced hardened cotton armor, with perhaps some small leather and/or metal components. By the time they developed Medieval level technology, they would probably be using cotton-backed ringmail, maybe some light chianmail, but that's more appropriate for a Medieval Infantry replacement than a Swordsman. It should be noted that the Swordsman represents an Iron Age unit; the Civ3 Swordsman is frickin' bare-chested, after all.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

well its up to 4 pages now
so i think some of the unit creaters have noticed this ^ ^

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I hope...if they haven't...they are blind...

 

[utahjazz7]

I'm not blind, but that doesn't really mean much.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

what are you working on utah?

 

[utahjazz7]

I'm working on some top secret stuff! Just kidding. Well, I'm working on some units for LouLong's medieval scenerios. I've also been spending time modeling stuff and then playing around with them Poser to figure out how to make conforming clothing and morphable objects. It's not as difficult as I thought it was going to be.

I don't like to post previews though because you can never please everyone, and I don't like people asking when things will be completed. So, I just communicate with the person whose request I'm doing to make sure they'll be happy enough with it.