Unit size more than 240...how this possible?

[gwendoline]

Hi guys! I'm stuck in question about units what have size more than 240 pixels. It's about rockets. Flicster or civ3flcedit can't open such animation but it works well in game. Can anybody say how people were able to make them?

 

[Vuldacon]

Specifically, the German V2, R-7 rocket and Atlas ICBM... launch and trail animations. 450 x 450 used for the Launch and Trail animations. 240 x 240 is max size in Flicster and cannot open those files.

...were those units made from conversions or somehow directly used from other games by changing to the Correct Flc format used in CIVIII/Conquests and if so does anyone know what programs and procedures were used?

If we just wanted to make a larger unit using much larger Frames, it could be beneficial to be able to do so.

 

[Jorsalfare]

The flc file-format doesn't restrict the size to 240x240. Larger sizes would work in the game, given that the (Civ3-spesific) registers in the file-header is set correctly. There is a thread somewhere about this - Moeniir's, perhaps? A program I've never used is Animator Pro, and it could be that the "oversized" flc's were made with this (or perhaps vith JASC Animator Shop)? Again, the flc made with these programs would probably need some minor modifications to fit with the (custom-made) header-format used by Civ3.

 

[Vuldacon]

Jorsalfare... Yes, I don't recall if anyone posted the programs and procedures they used.

This probably has not been of any real interest due to the Units having specific positions used in game animations but there are some units that could be made larger and work such as a Rocket, Locust Storm, Storms, etc... Of course larger units would go beyond the Box Right in game.

 

[gwendoline]

I've created the rocket using tactical nuke template with edited file header, but it still far from how those rockets above been made. Seems that ancient knowledge is lost or well hidden.
View attachment Nuke1.zip

 

[Balthasar]

Seems that ancient knowledge is lost or well hidden.

This is getting better. I love a good mystery...

 

[nick0515]

Where's Oz? Seems like something he would remember.

 

[Ozymandias]

The flc file-format doesn't restrict the size to 240x240. Larger sizes would work in the game, given that the (Civ3-spesific) registers in the file-header is set correctly. There is a thread somewhere about this - Moeniir's, perhaps? A program I've never used is Animator Pro, and it could be that the "oversized" flc's were made with this (or perhaps vith JASC Animator Shop)? Again, the flc made with these programs would probably need some minor modifications to fit with the (custom-made) header-format used by Civ3.

From Moenir's 2001 thread

"[...] firaxis decided to make all animations 240x240, but most don't need all that room. So, to save space in the files, they clip the frames. Imagine printing all 80 frames (not including ring frames) for our horseman onto cellophane, and then stacking them up. The smallest rectangle you could draw around the pictures in the stack is the clipping region. In the case of our running horseman, the clipping region is 71x80 pixels, offset (83,57) from the top left corner of at 240x240 square."

Cyber Dreyk confirmed in 2004: "Moreover, it seems to me that Civ3 flc cannot be more than 240 x 240 pixels."

Recall that Firaxis chose NOT to use the standard .flc file format, so the issue is NOT in the file header. OK, maybe I'm wrong here - see "P.S."

Wyrmshadow and/or Krayzeenbk (a rare error: K's - in my "arcxhives" -is dated 2004; Wyrm's 2005) got around these limits with different "Launch," "Run," and "Trail" anims although, having not used it myself, I'm not quite certain how it makes sense viz. the .ini:

[Animations]
BLANK=
DEFAULT=Run.flc
WALK=
RUN=V2Trail.flc
ATTACK1=
ATTACK2=
ATTACK3=
DEFEND=
DEATH=..\Tactical Nuke\TacticalICBMBomb.flc
DEAD=
FORTIFY=Fort.flc
FORTIFYHOLD=
FIDGET=
VICTORY=..\Tactical Nuke\TacticalICBMDeath.flc
TURNLEFT=
TURNRIGHT=
BUILD=
ROAD=
MINE=
IRRIGATE=
FORTRESS=
CAPTURE=V2Launch.flc

(unit attached)

Polaris tried the following (likewise attached) in 2002, but I can't get it to work:

[Animations]
BLANK=
DEFAULT=V-2Default.flc
WALK=
RUN=V-2AttackA.flc
ATTACK1=
ATTACK2=
ATTACK3=
DEFEND=
DEATH=V-2Bomb.flc
DEAD=
FORTIFY=
FORTIFYHOLD=
FIDGET=
VICTORY=V-2Death.flc

-Oz


Sorry, Nick, been fighting off a bit of relapse ...

P.S. @Vuldacon et. al. - sorry, missed your entry; you've been around long enough to know I'm "the self-proclaimed Village Gfx Idiot " I use Quicktime for .flc previews, so didn't catch the pixel sizes ... If this info isn't useful, so it goes.

-O.

 

[tom2050]

Hey, I'm bumping this post! I'm trying to figure out how this is done.. I found the below post by Moeniir, which explains it well, but haven't been able to get it working yet, it crashes the game.

I know Wyrmshadow and a few others figured it out.. if anyone knows or has any tips to add on how they got it working, please let me know. I will continue trying until I figure it out. If I figure it out, i'll post specific step by step.

First, sorry this is very late in being posted. Had something unexpected come up this evening.

Second, I'm not building a new full install, at least not tonite. If you already have the tool, just replace FLICster.exe with the new one. If not, please run the installer (at the start of this thread) and then replace the exe with this version.

NOW: What's new? Palettes, thats what. In a CIV3-FLIC, all the directional animations share a palette. When FLICster splits a CLIV3-FLIC into Standard FLCs, each FLC gets its own copy of the palette. Animation Shop has a nasty habit of "optimizing" the palette (its not a bug, its a feature!) by re-arranging and even merging the entries. This is a Bad Thing. Further, when editing the cells in another program (say, PaintShopPro), if you make any changes to the palette of any cel, you can end up with multiple palettes in one animation. While this is technically legalk in a FLC, it seems to also be a Bad Thing for civ3.

So, on to solutions. Most of the Civ3 FLCs (mebbe all? not sure) follow a pattern - the first frame of the first direction (SW for those keeping score at home) has a palette (COLOR_256 chunk with 1 packet of 256 rgb tuples, but who's counting), and none of the other frames in any direction do. So, I've updated FLICster to take advantage of this.

When splitting a file, FLICster 0.1.2 will read the COLOR_256 chunk of the first frame of the first direction (basically, the palette for the whole animation) and emit the palette as a JASC .PAL file - a saved palette file usable by AS & PSP. It's created in the same directory as all the split files.

When editing a FLC file using Animation Shop, be sure to edit the individual frames in PSP (they're integrated... go for it). Once you open the frame in PSP, go to the Color menu, and choose Load Palette (edit palette and save palette aren't available yet, because PSP thinks the file has transparency info. Go figure), and load the .PAL file created during the split. You will be asked if you want to "flatten" the file. Yes, you do. BE SURE that when you load the palette, you choose 'Nearest color' error correction. Since all the colors in the picture are in the palette already, there's no error correction needed, and everything will look fine. Now, you are using the exact palette the original CIV3-FLIC used. IF YOU CHANGE THE PALETTE (edit palette on the color menu) - there are 3 rules. Rule 1 - stay away from the first row of 16 colors - all shades of blue. These are the colors that CIV3 translates for civ colors, ie, green for persia, pink for france, etc. Rule 2 - Don't touch that last color! The gawd-awful fucia we all know and hate is the transparency color, and I think Civ3 wants that in the last spot on the palette. Rule 3 - save the palette and use it for ALL of the animations, and all of the frames.

Okay, if you've gotten this far, then you have edited all the cells in a standard FLC file, and it's time to save the changes. First up, select all the frames at once in AS and right click to choose properties. In the ensuing dialog, change the frame delay to 1/1000 of a second. By default, the AS seems to use 6 ms, which is nice for viewing your FLCs in AS, but BAD BAD BAD for saving. Right before you save it, be sure you set the frame delay to 1 MS. Good.

Now, save it. When you save a FLC in AS, you get a dialog box. Click the CUSTOMIZE button. Pick 256 colors, and choose "Custom Palette". Now click Browse, and browse to your PAL file ( the one FLICster created for you, or the one you created if you edited the original PAL ). Okay, NOW you can save it.

I did test this, and it worked fine. I put a flapping bird over the shoulder of the Modern Worker's RUN animation (South bound only). Sorry, i'm no artist. Anyway, using the above steps to keep the palettes in sync, I re-merged the file and tried it in game. WORKS! WOOHOO! I would post it for people to see, but I did it at work (blush) and forgot to mail it home. I'll try to post it tomorrow.


As I've said before, I think this process is pretty &*%^** unwieldy, and I don't like it. I'm working on something better. In the mean while, I figured folks would rather have a poor tool than no tool at all. The updated EXE is attached. Stay tuned for more.

PLEASE post your successes/failures... I really want to see this help folks, but I don't have the time or the artistic talent to do as much testing as i'd like.

 

[Vuldacon]

Tom2050... Not sure exactly what you want to know here.
What have you seen or want to figure out?

 

[tom2050]

Hey Vuldacon:
Trying to figure out the original question, for ICBM animations... you responded also with curiosity on how they were done (larger than 240), not sure if it was really figured out or not. Several were successfully done in making larger than 240 ICBM rocket animations, but I have been unsuccessful so far (using Moerniirs process/procedures/instructions I quoted above). Curious if anyone has any specifics/experience on how to successfully do this?

Hi guys! I'm stuck in question about units what have size more than 240 pixels. It's about rockets. Flicster or civ3flcedit can't open such animation but it works well in game. Can anybody say how people were able to make them?

Specifically, the German V2, R-7 rocket and Atlas ICBM... launch and trail animations. 450 x 450 used for the Launch and Trail animations. 240 x 240 is max size in Flicster and cannot open those files.

...were those units made from conversions or somehow directly used from other games by changing to the Correct Flc format used in CIVIII/Conquests and if so does anyone know what programs and procedures were used?

If we just wanted to make a larger unit using much larger Frames, it could be beneficial to be able to do so.

 

[Vuldacon]

I have accomplished other Rockets using the Original Flcs.
One of The problems is Flicster max size is 240 X 240.

Those Units are a different size and you can use them to make other Rockets but I do not believe any other Game Unit can be larger than 240 X 240.
This all has to do with Frame Sizes in Game according to the Game Tile size on land.

I am certain that the ICBM Rockets were able to be made differently concerning size but good luck trying to have any Ground Unit larger than 240 x 240.

I say if you want to use the same Flcs and change them to something else, go for it but that will probably be the same Unit Type... ICBM Rocket.

 

[tom2050]

Yes, so to make other ICBM Rocket animations, did you just use the originals and modify them, using Paint Shop Pro and JASC Animation Shop?

 

[Vuldacon]

Yes, so to make other ICBM Rocket animations, did you just use the originals and modify them, using Paint Shop Pro and JASC Animation Shop?

Yes, Modify the Originals.

 

[tom2050]

Yes, Modify the Originals.

Exactly! The thread was about modifying the rockets just as the first post asked, but no answer was really given. I was modifying the originals. You cannot do so in Flicster (since they are oversized).

The only way seems to be using Paint Shop Pro and JASC Animation Shop (or someone mentioned Animator Pro). Before I go and rediscover what may already be known... if someone knows a working process they used to successfully modify the Civ 3 rocket FLC (since they are oversized)? And, it would be helpful to have for the community. Mine attempts so far freeze Civ 3, maybe i have to change some part of the FLC header, not sure.

If nobody knows any longer, I will figure it out and post some step by step instructions.

 

[Vuldacon]

tom2050...Right... Not exactly an easy process.
We have been constricted to the way we have been able to make and adjust Units in the Game... Question, is That The ONLY way?
Makes one wonder... Still, the Old concept of "if it ain't broken...don't fix it" remains true for most because it is at least understood and easier..

I am certain there are things we do not know that would be applicable to accomplish what we we each would want... A matter of finding it and the way... same as it always has been here at our Forum for many years

I You Find the Answers and let us all know.

 

[tom2050]

Yea, I was trying to make a replacement for ICBM, to make an comet/meteor type launch, with a chunk of meteor fragments instead of a missile. Seems some others got it working somehow. I will try to figure it out

 

[Civinator]

240 x 240 is max size in Flicster and cannot open those files.

First please let me say that I highly appreciate the great work you are all doing with Civ 3 units.

Can it be, that there was used another tool but Flicster? Unfortunately I´m no unit maker, but I can remember that there existed other tools, too, to create Civ 3 units. Civ3MM?

 

[Vuldacon]

Civinator... Yes, Animation Shop can be used.

tom2050... You can use the R-7 ICBM by Krayzeenbk flcs and .ini. You can use Animation Shop and Paint Shop Pro to Change the flcs to a Comet.

Edit: That is if you want to use the Unit as a Nuclear Unit.

I use the Meteor as a Cruise Missile that can be adjusted in Flicster.